Since Yahoo logged the Celestine Blasphemy I have been swamped with more responses than I know what to do with. It really seems to have hit a nerve out there.

Some of the responses have been from Christians who have been encouraged by what I've written. Many more though have been from people who have questioned what I believe.

This has challenged me to look deeper into why I believe what I do. It has thrust me deeper in my spiritual journey, which I suppose that is what we're all really on about, be it Christianity, New Age, Buddhism or whatever.

I can't prove Christianity to anyone beyond a shadow of a doubt (though there is plenty of proof if you're open to it). In the end, it does ultimately come down to a matter of faith.

I do believe though that Christianity is different, and that it cannot be lumped in with every other philosophy and be compatible with them. There is something different about this faith.

I'm not saying that there isn't a lot of truth in what James Redfield has said in his book. It's exciting that more and more people are finding ways to get in touch with their spirituality.  I'm excited that people seem to be taking on so much of what I see to be true Christianity, sometimes much more than the type of Christians you would find in church.  I just think that when it comes to Jesus, James has sold Him short.

A lot of what I'm on about can be summarised by a quote from CS Lewis's book Mere Christianity.

I hope that by checking out this open forum which I hope to compile that other people will be better able to understand why I believe this.

Everyone's journey is valuable and useful for each of us to learn from.

Humbly, your fellow journeyer.

Marty

Plus many more!

I'll tell you what Marty, I think God led me to the letter you wrote to your friend. Just the other day, I had a very uncomfortable encounter with a group of old friends at a 40th birthday party. I have known about the New Age Movement for quite sometime. I skimmed through that book once out of curiosity, saw what it was and put it down. My friends at this party were people out of my past who never really new God. Most were female and have an unhealthy hatred of men and ultra-feminists to the core.

One woman in particular, divorced, four children and a lesbian was my old best friend. She started in on the Southern Baptists views and slammed them. Thank God my Southern Baptist friend left, she would have been hurt.

I was appalled at the whole mindset at this gathering. One of the women talked of " The Celestine Prophecy " and how we all will have to sit back and let it happen. It 's the same old philosophy, " if it feels good, do it! " in my opinion. If people are starting to think like this, it is scary.

Your letter zapped me back to reality. I sat back and didn't take a stand and betrayed God .By not taking a stand, I was Judas. My heart just aches for those people and I don' t know how to minister to them. They will shoot me down because I' m not as grounded in the Word as I should be. In all honesty, I was a coward.

Your letter, showed me what I have to do. THANK YOU!

Tina

Thanks for reading. It's quite scary the amount of traffic the letter has gotten in the last week! Pass it on to anyone who you think may benefit.

In His almighty name.

Marty

Dear friend,

It is a shame to see how brainwashed you have been. What you have been taught is simply an interpretation of Scriptures. If the Jewish community of the time of Jesus was as closed minded as you are, your beliefs would not exist today. I do not mean to attack your beliefs, but I think you are taking your religion as well as The Celestine Prophecy too literally to be able to obtain the true meanings behind them. You seem to understand most of the insights in the Celestine Prophecy, yet your too afraid to accept that it may be true. Fear is the opposite of love. The only thing that hold us back from loving is fear... of rejection or whatever else it may be. I was raised Catholic, but as I get older, I am starting to realise that there are many flaws with the teachings of the Catholic church. One of the main points that I cannot accept is that a loving and compassionate God would use fear in his teachings. Fear of vengeance and destruction. It just doesn't fit. It is the biggest contradiction I have ever seen. Yet, the Catholic church teaches it and many people buy into it. I think if this world is destroyed it will be on our backs. That is why I do not see anything wrong with trying to do something about it. I think to sit back and do nothing is to be lazy and arrogant. You say we are supposed to humble ourselves before God and realise that we cannot ever become anything close to what he is. But the Celestine Prophecy says to do exactly that, and at the same time, take the responsibility to do your part on earth. That is exactly what intuitions are. They are the divinity within you (or through you) nudging you to do what your mission on this earth is to fulfil. You can be arrogant in the way of denying your intuitions because you are too lazy to do your part. But we all came here for a reason and I do not think that doing your part and trying to do something about the situation we have gotten ourselves into is arrogant!!! To sit back and think God come to our rescue when we do nothing to change our destructive ways is foolish.

Thanks Ryan for your responses. It's great that we can have different ideas and express them to each other. Brainwashed... maybe. I hope that, as you said, what I say comes from the Scriptures. For me, without that I would be having a stab in the dark like a lot of other people. But how could I know, without some outside revelation that my stab in the dark was right. That would be a bit leap of faith. I suppose I have chosen to have faith in the Bible.

What do the words 'law' and 'grace' mean to you? Why do you feel obliged to do anything positive in this world? Will you ever do enough? What will you do if your life or the rest of the world falls in a shit heap? How will you feel? Will you hold yourself responsible? What are you responsible for? Who are you responsible to?

What I'm getting at here is that you seem to have the law written on you heart. You feel obliged to do something in this world! For me this fact points to the concept that there must be some sort of moral absolute.

To cut this short... the law says 'yes there is an absolute, which, was you know in your heart, you will never meet up to all the time. There is a consequence of this... being separated from God forever.' Grace says 'I will pay the price so you can be united with God.' Romans 12:1&2 talk about responding to God's grace and mercy. Because I believe that I am created by God for a purpose and that he loves me enough to give his life, I have a purpose. This grace is something I respond to in a positive manner and live the positive life that you speak of. If you believe that there is no God or no heaven then what is at the end once we shuffle off this mortal coil? If in the end it all adds up to nothing, doesn't that mean that everything during life means nothing? What then is this meaning that you speak of?

I am encouraged by a lot of the insights of the Celestine Prophecy. As I said in the letter, many of them do really happen and Christians are too closed minded to see them and take hold of them. The thing that scares me is that the philosophy embodied in the Celestine Prophecy takes God out of the picture and puts me and you back in the centre, where I believe God should be.

How am I meant to take the bible and not come up with this conclusion? If I shouldn't take the Bible literally, how should I take it to come up with any other conclusion than that God wants to be recognised as God and that he doesn't take lightly to people who tell him where to go?

I'm not sure about the fear, vengeance, hell punishment thing. I don't know what hell really is. My viewpoint is not somewhere where God visits and tightens the thumbscrews and puts a few more logs on the fire every so often.

I believe that God created us as being with a free will. He created us to live our lives in a loving relationship with him. But love is not love without the ability to choose to love. So he took the risk of letting us have the choice whether we love him and want to be with him or not. And he will honour our choice. We can choose to spend our eternity without God and all the things he is; love, truth, life etc... Existence without these things would have to be 'hell'. But yes, he will honour your choice.

Marty

PS I'm sorry. A lot of people including me and the Catholic church sometimes don't manage to communicate the gospel clearly. When I wrote the stuff above it was the end of a long week and I was feeling pretty frustrated. Insecure humans will use shock tactics like hell to scare people into believing what they believe. That's crap and I'm sorry for having done that. But a man hanging broken, half naked and dying is not such an aggressive image. If only I could understand that more. Jesus wasn't so aggressive. He just died for us and invites us to accept his forgiveness as a gift.

I look forward to hearing from you again Ryan.

I agree, as I said in the original letter, that the Celestine Prophecy talks about a lot of things that the Christian organisation doesn't take in. There is a lot of very informed truth in the book.

I also believe though that Christianity and the New Age movement mix like oil and water. Like you say, the New Age movement tries to embrace Christianity and say that it adds to Christ. The problem is that it also embraces everything else and combines it with Christ. Jesus didn't say those sort of things about himself. Throughout the Bible God claims to be the one true God and obviously wants his creation to worship him as such. I see the whole New Age thing as many of the benefits of Christianity, or the way that God created us to live before the fall, without sin or Christ. Jesus says that he alone is the way to Life. He doesn't go in for the option of any thing you want with a little bit of Christianity thrown in for a safety net just in case he is right.

I don't know how you can make reference to the second coming of Christ when reincarnation negates the need for the Second Coming. The Second Coming is all about Jesus coming back to take those who have chosen to align themselves with Him to heaven.

Hebrews 9:28 & 29 says

Keep in mind that the Celestine Prophecy is a book written recently and not a real Peruvian manuscript. It is just a summary of a philosophy that is growing in popularity over the last 30 odd years in western cultures.

Thanks for writing.

I read your views on this subject, and I am very enthusiastic to hear someone writing like you did. I thought you hit most of the major issues of Christianity in this short "essay." I actually printed up a copy of your page because I believe that you provide a tremendous insight to people who don't know Jesus or don't know why they are a Christian. I printed this page because I feel that I could show your writing to people and they will understand the awesome power of who God is and what Christianity really is about. I've always felt that if someone asks me questions about my beliefs I could answer them very adequately, but I might have trouble posing such a complete and encompassing view of Christianity. I believe that your writings,(even though people may not know anything about the book you were writing about) can and will provide an awesome evangelical tool and bring people(even believers) closer to Christ. WAY TO GO!!!

Marty,

My comments are simple. You have a great description of what you read and I agree with you in respect to many of your perceptions.

The only thing I seem to have seen different is that I see that incredible energy as GOD. GOD is the earth, the sky, the trees, the love. I don't think there is anything wrong with getting closer to the energy if in fact, the energy is GOD.

Have a good one,

Enrique

What would you say if I said that the God whose awesome qualities are expressed in his amazing creation can actually be known. Romans 1:20 says 'For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.'

Can you see that the Bible says that you can get to know the source of all this great power. What a pity to worship the creation when you can get to know the Creator.

I would love to talk to you more.

Marty

Marty

But, let us take the last book, Revelation, and give the true interpretation of that book and end this conversation. The Book of Revelation is a "Astrological projection of a Picean Messiah". Now, when we look at Revelation and see that the Beast is Jesus Christ then the conversation is over.

The practice of cannibalism is not a very good practice for an enlightened people. Eating the flesh and drinking the blood is a beastly practice.

Enough??

True, although there is no doubt that Jesus lived and died, the only real substantiation for belief in who Jesus claimed to be is the Bible. I won't bother arguing with you on that one. Both believing Jesus to be God and the Bible to be the Word of God are, after examining the many facts and figures, matters of faith.

'The flesh and blood of the Son of man, denote the Redeemer in the nature of man; Christ and him crucified, and the redemption wrought out by him, with all the precious benefits of redemption; pardon of sin, acceptance with God, the way to the throne of grace, the promises of the covenant, and eternal life. These are called the flesh and blood of Christ, because they are purchased by the breaking of his body, and the shedding of his blood. Also, because they are meat and drink to our souls. Eating this flesh and drinking this blood means believing in Christ. We partake of Christ and his benefits by faith. The soul that rightly knows its state and wants, finds whatever can calm the conscience, and promote true holiness, in the redeemer, God manifest in the flesh. Meditating upon the cross of Christ gives life to our repentance, love, and gratitude. We live by him, as our bodies live by our food. We live by him, as the members by the head, the branches by the root: because he lives we shall live also.'

I don't know where all this is going to get me with you. It all comes down to faith in the end, whatever I say. You will believe whatever you choose to believe.

Can you give me a brief synopsis of what this book is about. Is it a fictional adventure story or a non-fiction narative? What is it about? I'd like to know this information before attempting to read it. I like Star Trek and Star Wars is it like these books?

S.

The Celestine Prophecy is a little bit like Star Wars in that it is a fictional story with an underlying spiritual philosophy. However, the Celestine Prophecy focuses more on the philosophy than the story. It's the story of some people who go on a journey in search of some Peruvian scrolls which contain ancient 'truths'. The story is basically a vehicle for a lot of New Age philosophy. A lot of it is very good and very informative. However, as a Christian, I personally disagree with the way that it just lumps Jesus in with a bunch of other spiritual leaders from history. What Jesus said and claimed to be (i.e. the Son of God and the saviour of the world from our sin) doesn't really allow that. I believe Jesus stands on His own as the only Way, Truth and Life.

Marty

Hi Marty,

I just read your very thorough response to the Celestine Prophecy and felt compelled to respond to that.

You definitely find a lot of truth in the book towards things like coincidences, group dynamics and the restlessness and the longing for something more in society right now.

But you seem to find too much dissonance between the ideas here and in the Bible.

For instance, with finding energy within one's self. Remember, this book does emphasise connecting one's self to the "divine source of energy."

You seem to be pre-occupied with humans giving themselves too much credit because no one measures up to God's standards. Personally, I know I'm not perfect and I don't think I ever will be, but I think I should take the initiative to improve myself rather than give up, throw my hands in the air and say, "I'm just a lowly sinner. God have mercy on little me."

I may not be perfect but I am proud of what I am. I don't think I should ever sell myself short of what I am and what I can accomplish, and I think everyone should feel this way.

After all, God created you and me the way we are. Why should we feel guilty about that.

I think the majority of the book "Celestine Prophecy" compliments Christianity and other religions. Sure, some of it is different than what is in the Bible (for instance, the absence of Satan). But you know as well as I do that the Bible has many inconsistencies. For instance, you have the ten commandments in the old testament and then Jesus comes along and says, "Oops, we forgot one, the most important one; Love one another."

When you look at an aspect like that in the Bible it seems to follow Redman's idea of spiritual awareness evolving over generations and being passed on by human beings experiencing the enlightenment. This seems more plausible than the strict doctrine that the Bible is the direct word of the Lord. I mean, this is God. He probably wouldn't be forgetting to put things in.

You don't have to choose between "Celestine" and the Bible, and you don't have to choose between Christianity and New Age. You said yourself that like most humans, you know virtually nothing about the way the world and the universe works. There's lots of different ideas floating around out there. It's up to you to do what you want with them. Adopt a belief. Use it as a framework for everyday situations. Or simply be entertained by them. If we weren't meant to enjoy the world, why bother being here?

Derek Abma

Thanks for responding. The letter has gotten a little bit of traffic since Yahoo put it up recently.

You talk about God. What does he/that/it mean for you? What is your relationship and response to Him/Her/it?

If you believe that there is a God who created you, shouldn't you try to work out why God created you and what your response to that should be?

For me, sin is going it alone without God... telling God, who you say created you, that he can go jump and you can make it on your own without him.

I find my full potential and meaning when I connect with God and do it his way... the way he created me to live. In submission to God I find my full meaning. I am complete, as I was created to be.

The fact that I am a sinner who is saved by God's grace gives me a reason and a motivation for living.

You say that the Celestine Prophecy compliments Christianity. I agree, there are a lot of things in there that Christians should take some more notice of.

The New Age (whatever that means) seems to take in Christianity as one of the paths to truth. That's nice. But when Jesus says 'I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me.', and 'You shall have no other God's before me' then I don't think that it can be said that Christianity is compatible with the New Age Movement which embraces an infinite number of gods and ways to heaven/nirvana or whatever.

About the Ten Commandments thing that you mentioned. You said that Jesus came along and added the most important one cos God forgot in the first publication. If you look at the 10 Commandments you'll see that the first four are about how we got about showing our love for God and the other six are about how we show our love and respect for others. Jesus didn't add anything, he simplified the ten into two. I would have enough trouble following the ten. I know I don't love God and others all the time.

The New Age Movement has adopted the second part of Jesus' command, 'Love others as yourself', while neglecting the first and most important, 'Love the lord your God with all your heart and all your soul.'

What other inconsistencies do you see in the Bible? I know of a number of them. But when you look at it, it's pretty uncanny that a book that was written over a few hundred years by dozens of authors all seems to be so coherent. Sure the whole process wasn't as smooth as some people think but there's enough consistency there to make me believe that it is the Word of God, an absolute which we can live by.

You say that I should adopt a believe and live by it... if I want to, or if I don't want to I should just be entertained by it. I have adopted a belief, but you seem to have a problem with mine. Why would you bother living by something if you didn't believe it to be the absolute truth? If you don't believe that your faith is the absolute then you're wasting your time and should go out and be a lot more selfish live for yourself instead of being nice. If I believed that there was no God and I was my own god I would be out there exploiting the world for myself.

How is saying that you can mix and match and make up your own philosophy of life any different from admitting that you have no meaning? Just because I want to believe something doesn't necessarily mean it's right does it? Making up your own mix and match religion is great. You can even make yourself god in the game if you want to... with no accountability for any of your actions. But what happens if there is a God who wants you to acknowledge him and will hold you accountable for your actions?

Marty

Good to hear from you Marty. I thought it might be easier to respond to your questions and points one by one, using your text.

You talk about God. What does he/that/it mean for you? What is your relationship and response to Him/Her/it?

I believe that God is a personification of all the natural engergy in the world. The energy that makes plant and animal grow, makes the sun come out, ect. ect. But this energy trancsends everything we consciously experience in our moods and thoughts to. But actually, this explanation doesn't really cut it. I can't really explain what it is, nor can anyone, so we have to use metaphors and symbols which we already understand as a framework. Hence, think of God as a person, THE ultimate person.

If you believe that there is a God who created you, shouldn't you try to work out why God created you and what your response to that should be?

Of course. Why am I here? What was I meant to do? I'm working on it and getting a better idea everyday.

For me, sin is going it alone without God... telling God, who you say created you, that he can go jump and you can make it on your own without him.

I think I need the "energy" (as I like to call it) to reach my full potential. But it's inside of me or part of me. Don't you believe a part of God is in you. He made you in his image didn't he? You should be proud of that. To be human is not to be unworthy, the human soul is part of the divine magic.

The fact that I am a sinner who is saved by God's grace gives me a reason and a motivation for living.

I don't believe in devaluing yourself as a sinner. Don't be so hard on yourself. No one's perfect. If God wanted you to be perfect he would have made you that way. Again, existence is nothing to feel guilty about.

But when Jesus says 'I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me.', and 'You shall have no other God's before me' then I don't think that it can be said that Christianity is compatible with the New Age Movement.

There's alot of assumptions that have to be made to take that quote literally.

1) He wasn't misquoted.

2) The translation from the original language is accurate in context and meaning, not just word for word.

3) Content of the Bible has not been altered by undivine people with unholy agendas. Basically, the Bible is old. A lot could've happened.

4) Jesus was God, perfect and had no human limitations, such as ego. He did have that moment of doubt on the cross, remember?

If you look at the 10 Commandments you'll see that the first four are about how we got about showing our love for God and the other six are about how we show our love and respect for others. Jesus didn't add anything, he simplified the ten into two. I would have enough trouble following the ten. I know I don't love God and others all the time.

Why wasn't it just put as simply as possible as in the first place.

The New Age Movement has adopted the second part of Jesus' command, 'Love others as yourself', while neglecting the first and most important, 'Love the lord your God with all your heart and all your soul.'

I think the latter concept is hard to understand than the first. We can easily see why we should love one another. It's practical. I help you, you help me. We can both be better off helping each other than trying to screw each other.

Loving God? Why is this such a big deal? Does he need our love? Is it just for his own personal satisfaction? I think it may not be giving the divine power enough credit. This principle is probably important but I don't thing the Bible or Christianity explains it enough.

What other inconsistencies do you see in the Bible? I know of a number of them. But when you look at it, it's pretty uncanny that a book that was written over a few hundred years by dozens of authors all seems to be so coherent. Sure the whole process wasn't as smooth as some people think but there's enough consistency there to make me believe that it is the Word of God, an absolute which we can live by.

You admit to inconsistencies and then say it's the absolute word of God. Look, either God got mixed up sending the messages down or more probably, the writers got a bit mixed up. But yeah, it's still pretty good but you can't say it without a reasonable doubt the whole absolute word of God.

If you don't believe that your faith is the absolute then you're wasting your time and should go out and be a lot more selfish live for yourself instead of being nice. If I believed that there was no God and I was my own god I would be out there exploiting the world for myself.

Why is that? Even if you don't believe in a God you have never seen, you can't deny the existence of people. People with joy, sadness, pain and pleasure, things that you can have an effect on and others can have an effect on yours

I thing my big thing is that I don't think humans have developed enough of a capacity to understand the absolute truth so everything that can be spoken in by a human is just a hint.

Thanks for your reply. You presented your case very well and has sent me searching for some answers to the points you raised. I'm doing some reading and researching and will get back to you as soon as I feel I have a response that will do the questions justice.

Thanks.

Marty

Hello, Surfing brought me to you letters about James Redfield's books. If you need a description of Aura and our purpose as entities on planet earth I will gladly impart my version.......I'll even through in what actually happened to Adam and Eve in that Garden....Its simple science..

I guess your stuck on the God version....Its O.K. at death you'll step back into focus...the same focus that Jesus said you could have here, but as do 99.99% of the entities we think all we have to do is believe (another word for hope) and Jesus will save us.. Ha Ha Ha I'm glad you're a believer as your intentions are usually good.... Let me let you in on some common knowledge Jesus, Budha, Krishna, Don Juan and others who have received enlightenment on this planet went through an extreme condition to get enlightenment.... Jesus 40 days and 40 nights without food and drink, Budha 10 years locked in a cave, Krishna sat next to a tree and refused to move unless he received enlightenment... and Don Juan well he was in the midst of teachers that had to virtually force him into different conscious states by way of trickery, nonetheless arriving at the enlightened states and KNOWING what is a HUE-MAN BEING. US, were just believing and hoping and dying.... the wages of sin is death....so all who die are SINNERS and it doesn't matter how much hope or how much GOOD one does if you die you are a SINNER. To have eternal life one must go to extremes on their own to receive it .then, why would you want to hang with a bunch of sinners...........mull this over...

Larry

I'm a little confused on where you're coming from.

I would be interested in your views on Auras. What is your version on our purpose on earth. I suppose that one is a fairly fundamentally important question. Do you believe in the Biblical account of Genesis?

Do I understand the second part of your email correctly? You say that I am wrong to have faith in Jesus for my salvation. I suppose I am more prepared to believe that God can do it than I can do it. Cos when I try I usually fall over. Do you?

You said... 'the wages of sin is death....so all who die are SINNERS and it doesn't matter how much hope or how much GOOD one does if you die you are a SINNER. To have eternal life one must go to extremes on their own to receive it .then, why would you want to hang with a bunch of sinners...........mull this over...

And I'm confused.

Yeah, I'm going to live AND die as a sinner. I have hope (faith) in Jesus that he has paid the price for my sin. You know you have sin just like I do. You just believe that you can eventually become sinless in your own strength. This is where Jesus and all the others that you lumped him in with differ. Only Jesus gives a way to salvation that does not require us to pull ourselves up by our shoe laces. My striving to be good comes not from needing to be good to make it to heaven but from responding to the great thing that God has done for me. But I still can't get that right half the time.

I too was raised with people that had strong belief in God and Jesus. And I felt odd, as a child, taking sides with there description of God and to leave all the Hindu's, Buddhists and any other religion that didn't fit in the parameters of Christianity on their way to hell....well as a child this was absolutely unacceptable as I couldn't understand under any circumstances why Christians were included and any other religion was excluded... I couldn't understand why Jesus loved everybody, yet certain ones were generally condemned as they were out of the loop..

Well my parents also told me the truth would set me free... So my mission in life was to tell the truth and search for the truth...

First I found out that to Believe is to have HOPE...it really only means that whoever believes is only convincing themselves that there is someone to blame so we only have to live and die and in this life I can do whatever I want and be saved later so I can look O.K. in front of the big Maker on judgement day... UNACCEPTABLE!!!

Let me jump ahead to the Garden Of Eden story and no I don't believe in that story the way its conveyed in the bible version.

It sounds like Adam and Eve were the only ones in the Garden. But, there are things that will tell any detective that there were other entities in the garden, as they knew that certain plants were not to be eaten...What was Adam and Eves condition in the Garden...They hung out, they weren't able to see that they were naked, they had no needs and they were developing curiosity.

The reason I know they weren't the only ones in the garden is Eve never had any female babies and Cain and Able and Enos would have had to have had sex with Eve to complete the loop of gender making... hence other entities in the garden... hence no God making a planet in 6 days...It was also common knowledge that certain fruit were not to be eaten or you were out of the loop...Hence more than one family or person had eaten the fruit and it had probably happened to more than one entity and had become common knowledge that that fruit is a NO NO.

What was that fruit and why was it known as the fruit of the knowledge of Good and evil... It was any fruit with SUGAR...Sugar drops the conscious activity of the brain forcing the person to be able to Look and not SEE.....When you SEE you use the third eye and the things you see are AURA , energy fields of all things living (dead things are technically still living). When you LOOK (as we do) you have a limited perception of objects dashed with light. Without light, in darkness we don't see anything on the other hand when the third eye is working all is light even in darkness...

Well simply put, all the people in the Garden were in the light and used all the body functions and the third eye was their primary way of perception as it heightens the other senses and when one is in the mode of using the third eye knowledge permeates and All is knowledge...hence no needs...Hence no good or evil...When Adam ate the fruit he noticed he was naked and he called out when his mental state went from 100% to 10%.

From there he dragged Eve down to the same level and the rest is history. History being needed now to have a record of what to do and not to do as no one NOW has the knowledge of no needs but created rules of right things to do and wrong things to do...The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was only a drop in consciousness and the fall from grace in which the third eye was the function of the nuclear brain and all the senses working in harmony...hence no needs , no disease, just life to be lived in a universe to traverse at will..

Basically we are folks born in the light of 10 percenters. We all use about 10% of the brain function, then we spend our entire lives looking for the 100%, or enlightenment. Christianity only asks people to jump into the "we believe boat" and its at death that we go back into the light and the all knowing state. There is no Hell... that's a threat to get people to do good to each other rather than bad and a Heaven will be the reward.....there ain't no heaven either......no God to blame... just US, in nature, and we're out of TUNE...

Our biggest responsibility is to find harmony with nature or otherwise we die. Sinning is simply not knowing the way...any one who does good is still going to die unless the turn back on to the 100% level...Hence eternal life.

In my search for the truth includes all peoples on the planet as we're all in the same boat of 10% consciousness and even though we have hope or have belief in different Gods we are all lost the same. If Jesus was going to save you he would have done it before you die as death for this life is eternal. Would you rather be at 100% consciousness or 10%. At 10% you eventually die, at 100% you don't. Its really only the personality that's left behind.

So, to me it doesn't matter how or what other entities believe in or worship its my responsibility to ME to receive or reach enlightenment and not judge others in whatever they do. They will search for their salvation.

Do you really believe that a God in a universe with a ZILLION stars and ???many planets that that God would give a care about your meaningless daily life... I DON"T THINK SO... how egotistical and stupid. Take responsibility and stop grouping, believing and search for the truth that could mean not believing what all the other 10 percenters tell you... It's your life and you know your responsibility, take it...

Next, if you want I'll tell you what SEEING is physically like. I don't offer up any parameters to survive in only you know that... If you choose to have a GOD ...GOOD LUCK see you in the next life don't be late..

Larry

You say you'll see me in the next life... don't be late.

What happens if Jesus was for real when he said 'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. The only way to the Father is through the Son.'

Where do you get your theories on the Garden of Eden? It seems quite evolved if you don't believe in the Biblical account. Or maybe you believe in bits of the Bible and not others. Which bits? I agree that the Bible doesn't tell us the whole story, but enough to get to where God wants us to get to.

What happens if the Bible is God's Word, the only absolute truth, and everything else is just stabbing in the dark? What if the New Age Movement and all the eastern philosophy that it is based on is an invention of Satan to relieve people of the burden of sin on their consciences. I think all Satan wants to do is make people miss Jesus. If they go off trying to find salvation, or 100% as you call it, on their own, then he's happy. Do you believe in evil?

The belief that the God who created the billions of stars in the universe cares also for me is what keeps me going in life. If I believed that I evolved from a puddle of slime then I want to die now. If my life has no purpose then why continue.

Do you know anyone who has reached 85%? What were they like? Do you see society progressing? Does the progression of technology really increase our overall well being? Has the theory of karma and reincarnation helped the people of India progress their quality of life?

What if there is a God who does control the universe and predestines what will happen and knows who will be saved. I don't understand how he will judge those people who have never had the chance to accept or reject Jesus.

I believe that God is just. I also know that I have had the chance. By the sounds of it you have too.

What if God created us for a purpose... for a relationship with Him that he desires like a man desires a woman. What if he had to create us not like robots, but with a choice to accept Him or not... just like a woman can choose whether she marries a man or not? What if the only way He could achieve the relationship that He desires was to make us all go through this obstacle course of life, this growing up, so we could learn about Him slowly... learn about His nature, His majesty that he shows through His creation, His grace that He has shown through His Son?

I suppose we all have to make choices and take bets in this life. I've placed mine. I suppose you have too.

I don't know if we're going to change what each other believe, but it's certainly interesting hearing your point of view. I would love to know what it is like to SEE and how it is achieved. You also said you were going to tell me what you thought the purpose of our existence is.

Hello, Yes, "What is the purpose of life?" "TOO BE".....HUE-MAN BEING, says more than you know. Hue, meaning the light of our Auras, a light that permeates the body and every other living thing. A light that when SEEING (through the minds eye) surrounds the object body. Aura can be SEEN when physically SEEING from the third eye in the waking state. Not only Jesus had this ability but so did Buddha, Krishna, and other entities that went to the extreme to get the body to allow the body to function properly. The force enters through just below the belly button known to science as the Solar Plexus. The force or energy of the universe enters and goes up the spine and out the top of the head. When this happens our glands are sped up and our third eye opens revealing natures auras or Atomic Mind. From this point the looking eyes are not functional and one is in the state of bliss... At the same time the analytical brain is ceasing to ask questions as "knowledge of all that is" unfolds as De ja vu and the mind is one with the "ALL THAT IS".

Jesus said " I am the way the truth and the Light... and basically to get to God one has to come through me" He could have said " I am the way the truth and the light and become like me and you too will be next to God"

He's saying that to follow me and what I have done and you will realize a GOD existence already within you, just ask and ye shall receive. Its the same story that if you can break past the 10% barrier you receive the GOD consciousness... something everyone already has except we haven't realized it in this physical life yet.

Mr. Kendall lets get one thing very clear. I don't want you to change you ideas or feelings or thoughts about your realized life, with your love of Jesus or your concept of GOD... Your personal association with your beliefs are yours, and no one can challenge or take that away from you. I only offer a different description or version that I've realized through my life experiences and I from time to time share it with others.

I only offered up an account of the Garden of Eden because it is what a lot of people have a problem deciphering... as... we know from science that this world is older than 5000 years. We also know through science that there are signs of evolution. Although I know they won't find the missing link they have a need to make this a continuous physical string so they won't have to have a SOUL. I offer up a totally different version that has to do with transmigrating SOULS that have incredible potentiality traversing the universes.

I don't discount the Bible accounts and I agree that it gives bits and pieces of how to attain Gods grace (100% focus or total mind). Gods grace is the act of being 100% HUE-MAN...MAN is the name for our species in the transmigratory state out of the 3rd dimension. At 100% one has no time element in fact time stops and ALL IS KNOWLEDGE.

The Bible is simply mans word and a shabby account of our fall from grace.

You aren't from slime and you will find God but don't get stuck on worship, search for the truth by telling the truth at every turn...Its very powerful and it will set you free to realize the force or power of

God to manifest what's already there. And I must say that what is already there yet to manifest is GOD, GRACE, Compassion and love and bliss beyond your imaginative dreams.... ASK AND YE SHALL RECIEVE......

All is GOD or MIND and nothing is predestined its ever unfolding.....When I say there is no GOD I mean ALL IS GOD even you.. God is not some separate entity. I prefer not to use the GOD word as it creates a being removed and in charge. I prefer to use the word mind.

ALL IS MIND.....

I've only met two others that have similar views to mine...I've never encountered anyone that is over 20%. I've been at about 60% with another entities present. Technology is just a thing to keep man busy until they either destroy it all or they see the light. Technology will eventually pollute this planet into oblivion. If an Auto ran at 10% what would be the solution?? FIX IT OR JUNK IT...recycle it???

I have some homework for you, or some clues that you may not be aware of that exist in the BIBLE...A word only said once about a person not much talked about in the New Testament. I can't remember which book but the person is mentioned also in the Old Testament and his name is ENOCH... ENOCH was the only one that GOD TRANSLATED... WHY was ENOCH chosen to be taken while still alive to GOD (given eternal life) TRANSLATED means from one state to another.........check it out.

Opening the minds eye in the waking state is like having the shutters removed... its very physical and powerful and clear. The eyes act much like lenses in a camera only our cameras (brain) have multiple lenses behind the eyes and the degree of visuals is astounding on the way to the opening of the minds eye in the waking state.

Time to rest and be......

The aftershock of finding out that one is alone must be devastating.

Knowing that a faith in GOD has only been a hope, must be transmitting a feeling of loneliness......This is typical when a person finds out that he is an entity with short defenses and no god to bail him out.

But that's just the wonderful part. The first day of life without other restraints, having to rely on a book written by men some 60 years after the fact and all I have to do is tell the truth in every aspect of my daily life and in return when I least expect it the force of nature will manifest itself in my entity in a way I never thought or had imagined. 

This experience will catapult me onto the wonderment of life; the awesome integrity of the flow of just being.......HHUUEE MMAANN BEEIINNGG Its the fulfillment of the light, feeling the bliss, the sunshine flowing as ripples down my face......like crying without tears but skin rippling from the sunshine mostly light filling my being and this is before bliss.....After bliss and during there is an intensity beyond regular emotions when in heavy breathing there is a force to open you just below the belly button, known as solar plexus, from the flow to a flower my entity accepted and receives sunshine and the entity becomes filled with light and it is consumed with everknowing light..........What was your description of the God who saves you from WHAT!!!

Of course too there's the shock that may occur if you end up standing before the God who created the universe and He asks you to give an account of why you lived your life the way you did.

Why would God who knows everything, ask me to account for what god already knows?? HUH !!! I would tell him that he needs to do a personal visit because people been crying long and loud for Gods help and besides I get silly when I'm made to worship it feels like some slavery trip..

Why do you chose, when there was so much evidence available to you, to live your life apart from God...

What is the evidence???

Why do you chose to believe the people that told you that you should overcome your conscience and live for yourself...

Why do you listen to the bible written by men about their IDEA about what is GOD....Why do you side with them... because you are a sheep and need to be led to their belief system...

Why you chose to live eternity apart from Him and all the goodness that he is. I know He will respect your choice, that's the way He created you.

When do I find out that I have hoped in vain? If you're right I'll just go round and round and never get off, never really find out.

The Hindu's call it the wheel of life.........round n round and never get off...except when you die ...then we just jump back on...(reincarnate)..

The Tibetian BOOK OF THE DEAD is about what happens when one dies... Set in a silent vigil, and set your heart for the truth and see what happens...its a lifetime of the challenge of the heart in an extreme defined world...

Nice to hear from you...

Hey Larry,

I was thinking about something you said in an email a while back and I was wondering if you could put my mind at rest. You said that you yourself had reached a state of about 60% or so with other entities present. Could you please explain what you mean by this and how it happened? What do you see through the third eye when you're in this state? I suppose a lot of these concepts are quite foreign for me and I'd like to learn more of the specifics of how it happens for you and what it does for you.

The thing you were talking about with Enoch is in Genesis 5:24. It says 'Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.' To me this says that Enoch had a very close relationship with God and because of this God chose to spare him death. Hebrews 11:5 says that Enoch 'was commended as one who pleased God.' Why God would do this I don't know. God is God. He can do what he chooses to. Elijah (who's name means 'my God is Yah') also had a similar experience in 2 Kings 2:10 presumably also because he pleased God. This was after living a life struggling and triumphing against the worship of Baal. Check out 1 Kings 18:19-40 for the climax of the story. Elijah showed that the God of Israel was powerful and real while Baal amounted to no god at all, and that if God is God then he should be worshiped.

Thanks again.

Marty

Hello Marty, I keep getting this feeling about how easy it is to just say I believe in God. And my senses say thats the easy way out. My inner being knows that someday I have to give up the safe consumerism way to live and realize translation. Its hard when its so easy. To stop the pursuit now how convienent. To give in and become one of the sheep seems that I'm letting the rest of us down..Someone has to find the truth...Someone has to become enlightened to show the way...explained in our language..The totally self absorbed human in the light and bliss becoming intouch with the magnanifity of the all..Let it fly..this eternal designed spirit to live in the light as life itself within the realm of the all...To know and realize knowledge...I must refrain for a moment to believe in there Idea of a God as my spirit is about to submerge in the light of all knowing ...Ill be there soon.........Love being........

I figure it's nice to believe that someone else has already been my Messiah for me... and the rest of the world. That takes a lot of pressure off.

It sounds like Jesus may be tugging at your heart...

Marty

Larry wrote: You don"t read very well...this was a lament on how by proclaiming that there is a god you and the others like you are only sheep and will become only dust in the wind...The bible is a tool to break your concentration on food and consumerism...the sin that eventually kills you, forever. Take heed to the hidden word and know that there are no other gods but thee............larry...Jesus was tugging at your frail emotion of having someone else do it for you...

C ya

I believe that your belief in God is a very admirable trait. I think your knowledge of the history of the Church and its shortcomings the past shows you to be an honest and forthright person.

I would simply like to add a few comments regarding your letter posted on the web. To begin, almost all cultures worship a God of sort; whether it is Budda, Mohamed, (the Christian) God, etc.

Though all of these religions are different, this commonality should intrigue everyone.

The fact is, that Satan was created by the Christian faith. Without Christianity, there is no Satan. By you stating that New Age is the work of Satan, you have related it directly to Christianity. This is not the case; New Age is more simply its own of beliefs and faith. Some are based on Christian thoughts and teachings, others are not.

I believe in a higher spirit, that is involved in all of our lives...God, if you will. However, I do not believe in the teachings the Church that say that we must submit to God. I believe that God as an adviser to our thoughts and moral standards. He is the one we can rely on to always be available to us as a friend.

With this in mind, please note the terms in which I describe God. I am trying to say that I think He is more of a friend than a being to on hands and knees. We should be able to ask for God's advice just by standing there and asking a question...not by bowing down in submission.

A final thought: can it be possible that God has put the human person on this earth to allow Him to learn His own creation and evolution? God exists, but, maybe He is wondering how He became who He is and what He represents...remember, God fashioned man in His own image, right?!?! Does this not mean that God may be looking for the answers (just like we are) to His creation?!?!

Yours with great respect,

Jason

You are right that many cultures have a sense of God. They all seem to have their own way of achieving Nirvana or heaven or stopping the cycle of reincarnation... The New Age Movement seems to want to embrace all religions and say that they are part of the one big conglomerate. Do you know of any other faith than Christianity which has a way to salvation that doesn't depend on our works? I believe Christianity is unique in that salvation is outside of ourselves. But this does involve submission to something greater than us.

From my Christian framework/point of view, I see the New Age Movement as a lot of what Christianity offers without the submission or accountability to God.

The Bible says that God is worth of worshiping on our hands and knees (would anything/anyone less be worthy of calling God?). The actual word for worship used in the bible means to physically bow down, or at least the attitude that goes along with it. Because of our rebellion from him (sin) we are not fit to be in his presence. The bible also says that because Jesus paid the price for our sin, we can be friends with God, as He created us to be, if we only accept his gift.

At 22 I find it hard to take directions from my father. I want to be independent. He is usually right cos he has so much more experience than me, but I like to find out myself. Maybe God is a bit like that. He has given us the road map (the Bible) but we just want to work it out for ourselves. We want to follow our noses and just see if we get there.

Keep journeying.

Marty

I have been reading the Celestine Prophecy as you have and in doing some research on opinions I came across your response. I read a fair portion of your letter until I began to get a distinct feeling that somehow was wrong. Please understand I am not chaptered and versed in the bible and do not care to be... I understand what is good and what is evil!

Your statement below really caught my attention.

"The second way came about when Adam and Eve decided they could go it alone without God. They figured they were big enough to look after themselves and blew a raspberry at God. `We don't need you' they said `we are going to do it our way, independent of You'. This is sin."

OK I think I understand your point in the form of denying "a God" but, then...

"Since then people have been trying to find a philosophy that would give them meaning outside of God's framework, some inside. Those outside strive for self-actualization - to become the best that they can be in their own strength. Why? Essentially for their own glory and their own benefit. They strive to become what they feel in their hearts they are meant to be."

Something about the phrasing here really bothers me. I believe in God but, I also believe that religion in any form to be understood is truly an individual journey. Only when we understand ourselves and work towards the constant improvement of ourselves and our fellow man can we truly understand the teachings of religion.

I believe many of the cultural problems we face in religion, race, and ethnic issues are caused by focusing on the differences rather than a reconciliation of all the messages. For me personally, when it comes right down to it, all religions seek to provide a "roadmap" for people to conduct themselves, and it troubles me greatly to believe that God would only accept me into heaven if I submissively presented myself without trying to grow "inside". Just because I seek doesn't by default mean I am only in it for the "money" or prestige... I want to grow because I can then treat my fellow man better AND because I can then understand God better and the reason why I am alive and conscious. In fact, why are we here? What is our purpose? I surely hope it isn't just to be someone's servant!

Please understand I don't need chapter and verse of the Bible, I am just trying to reconcile the leap you took that any person trying to better themselves is only in it for narcissistic motives.

And please understand... I'm not trying to SPAM or pick a fight, I really care about these issues and I am just seeking greater understanding.

Dave

Thanks Dave. I don't think I've had anyone quote me to me before. Thanks for writing.

You're right. I have phrased that badly. I suppose I've thrown in a lot of New Age terminology in to get across my Christian opinion. I'll have to sit down and think about how I can phrase what I'm saying better.

Let me think... I suppose we're all on a search for significance. For me, my significance is summed up by a verse in Romans that talks about our lives having meaning when they are a response to who God is and what he has done.

For example, compare the child who is an orphan and doesn't know who its parents are with a child who has two loving parents who devote their lives to the child's best interest. The one with the amazing parents would have a greater sense of identity and significance because it knows where it has come from and by modeling itself on its parents, what it could become. And without some level of respect and submission to the parents, the child has no way of receiving everything that the parents had to offer the child. Think of how the parents would feel if the child divorced itself from the parents who had given it everything it needed.

I believe that when we divorce ourselves from God, he is grieved like a loving father would be grieved if a child said that he didn't want to have anything to do with his parents.

When we take God out of the equation, we search for significance outside of any relationship to God. Usually we become the most important thing in our world... we become our own God. I think this is sad for a couple of reasons. Firstly, like a father enjoys his children, God craves relationship with us. God is jealous when we give anything else but him the honour that he, as our creator and (potential) saviour, deserves. Secondly, we lose any real sense of significance and direction. For me, the Bible shows me something definite and substantial in a world where a lot of things look good but end up being like fairy floss. Without God and the Bible I think we are just stabbing in the dark, trying to find answers to questions like Who am I? Why am I here? What should I do with my life? Why should I care? The Bible gives these answers and allows us to get on with living how God planned for us to live.

I hope I haven't been too simplistic here. There are still heaps of challenges and mysteries in the Christian life. There is also a peace though, that when it comes down to it, it all doesn't rest on your shoulders. God has paid the price for our rebellion. All we have to do is live in response to who God is and what he has done for us.

Thanks for writing. I have enjoyed responding. I hope to hear from you again Dave.

Marty

Gee, its amazing what can be described as the work of the devil. I thought the devil represented evil, hate, hurt, etc., not a label to be placed on things we don't agree with or don't understand. I think its sad that time and energy that could have been used to do something good was wasted on creating a page to put down a lousy book.

Here's some advice- Matthew, Chapter 7

You're right. Who am I to judge someone else's faith as of Satan? I've taken the introduction off the beginning of the letter and just left it to speak for itself.

I wrote that after seeing a close friend who was seeking really hard into the New Age stuff end up in a psychiatric ward. He tried to tell me he was Jesus Christ. He improved significantly after having 366 demons cast out of him by a spirit cleanser. You're right, at the time I was scared and didn't understand what could do that to him.

What I'm really trying to get across with the page is that Christianity can't just be lumped in with the New Age Movement. It's unique.

Thanks for taking the time to write.

Marty

I happened across your web page and took a keen interest in all comments and statements.

I myself am not a practising religious person in any form.

I see myself as a good person and always tries to do the right thing by others. I have been told on numerous occassions by practising religious people that if you were born into a society (say a lost tribe in the middle of the amazon) and you have never been introduced to religion then in no way shape or form, for you to be saved by the LORD, upon your parting of this earth. As long as those people have followed what is seen to be good and correct in their society and heart, then they to will go to heaven. (regardless of this they are cannibals) Why as a what I believe myself to be a good person can I not follow my own heart and be kind to all but not put unbridalled faith in something or someone (of whom He has given me these powers to doubt and search for knowledge) am I and fellow humans judged so harshly.

I feel now that the only reason I want to put my faith in the Lord, is so I do not suffer his roth.

Sounds like a school yard bully to me.

After all he made us who we are.

Confused

Thanks for your reply.

I don't know how God will judge other people. That's up to him as a righteous, loving and just being. I just know the claims of Jesus and have tried to follow his teachings as best I can. I know that he said that he is the Way, the Truth and the Life. I also know he said to make disciples of all people. I'm doing my best.

I don't see God as a bully. I see him as gracious enough to let us make our own choices. You talk about him creating us as we are. Then if you say he created us then doesn't he deserve to be acknowledged? I believe that he created us for relationship with him. For him to enjoy us and for us to enjoy relationship with him. If we choose to live our lives without him as part of it then he will also respect that choice. I try to live my life and choose to make him God instead of me.

I don't know if you've heard the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32). It doesn't present God (the father in the story) as a bully. It presents God as a loving father who accepts his son back with open arms and throws a party for him even though he wasted half of everything he owned on selfish living and prostitutes.

I hope my response wasn't too cliched.

Marty

Hello,

I was raised a Christian and attended a Christian college for several years under the assumption that I was going to be a Christian psychologist. I was thoroughly disenchanted by the tactics of the professors. Whenever there was a question about discrepancies in the bible, they insisted that the students blindly believe what their interpretation was by "faith".

What I saw in this letter, was yet another "Christian" running in fear. If your faith is the only true faith, and your god the only true god, then you should not be so worried. Maybe it is all too clear to you that vast amounts of people are seeing through the mess that the "Christians" of this day and age have made of Jesus' original teachings. I for one no longer refer to myself as a "Christian", for what the "church" stands for today, has no more to do with what Jesus was trying to get across to the people, than the original Jewish teachings.

More and more of us are seeing the "church" for what it has become, a mere club of sorts. Those seeking the truth are not afraid to look outside their own back door to find it. I respect what Jesus taught, as well as what others before him taught. I find it in line with my spiritual beliefs to practice many of their admonishments. "The greatest of these being Love"

I wish you the best of luck on your journey. My spiritual beliefs direct me to have a loving and open response to every person no matter what their religion is (or is not...if they are an atheist). So by this token I wish you the best of everything through the path that you are following.

Blessed Be,

J-A

Thanks for your letter. I agree with much of what you said. I really admire your spiritual journey and wish I had as much grace as you do.

I agree that there are many teachers before and after Jesus that teach similar things. Can I ask you though if there are any other than Jesus who offer grace through faith in anything outside of yourself. As much as I and the rest of Christianity fail Jesus in our actions, I don't see any other religions offering anything other than pulling yourself up by your boot straps.

I wish I could be like Jesus who was a sinless friend of sinners. He hung out with the leppers and the prostitutes and the other outcasts of the day and made them feel loved.

Pardon me for asking, but what is so wrong with taking responsibilty for your own actions, or lack there of. Isn't it kind of childish to always blame someone or something else for everything that happens to us? Does there have to be a reason for everything that does happen? Why do people say when someone dies, that god must have taken them for a good reason. Could it not be that it was just that persons time to leave this life? It is easier to blame satan for tempting you with something that you believe (or have been taught) is wrong, than to accept the possiblity that maybe you are in fact curious about the subject and that that is why it is crossing through your mind. When you stop your thoughts, judge them, and try to wrestle them out of your head, you are giving them much more power than if you were just to let them pass right through.

What is so necessary about being forgiven through grace by faith. Have you ever noticed that when you make a mistake (sin whatever) that when you ask forgiveness of another person, and you are being genuine. Most of the time they are all too willing to forgive and even forget. Who involved with the situation has the hardest time forgiving and getting on with life? If you are anything like me..... it is you yourself. We always judge ourselves the hardest, even if no one else knows this. We have long detailed accounts of all our past mistakes. We repeatedly go through scenario's like...if only I had...I wish I hadn't.....I wish I could have..... Living in the past in regards to our mistakes, just gives them a greater sense of power over us. Live in the now. Talk about how you'll do it differently in the future, and stay focused on this. When you look at it this way, life isn't about where you will end up, it's about how much growing you do on the way. That is the true beauty of the way.

You sound like a very thoughtful man. There is another book, written as a novel, that has some more profound insights. This book is titled "Mutant Message from Down Under". It has another way of looking at life, through the eyes of the Aborigine culture in Australia. It is a very entertaining book at the least...... and has great spiritual insights at the most. Jesus never taught people to fear themselves, or their thoughts, he only admonished them to be aware of how their thoughts guide their actions. There is an abundance of Love all around us, each and everyday. If we connect with this Love, accept it, make it a part of us, and then return it to others we are doing the greatest thing we can for a humanity, and all creation. If ALL our actions are guided by love, we can not go wrong. Loving those that love us, is easy, loving those who don't is the real test. Jesus was a great example of this. Recall that he told his followers, that they could do what he had done, and greater things even. If they "believed" that they could. It is not an easy path. I fail a lot, I have just learned to not judge myself so harshly, I am in fact nothing more than a mortal. So I pick myself up, dust myself off, try to look at the situation from the perspective of "what can I learn from this?" and try again. I see nothing wrong in taking responsibility for my mistakes as well as my success' in these areas. I have learned through this, to judge others less harshly as well. This in turn leads to a greater flow of love. I don't believe for one moment that I will be perfect at the end of my current life, but I will know that I have given it my best shot, and that I have grown considerably.

My goodness! It would seem that I have written a small book to you in response to your simple note. This was not my intention. Thank you for your response, and the time you have taken to read this lengthy tome. I hope that you find the books. They are probably available at your local library, and any used book store could find you a copy far cheaper than buying a new one. If you set aside your fears, and preconceived notions, and just read these books with an open mind, they very well might speak to you. Your heart, is not something to mistrust. Your creator gave you a mind to reason with, and a heart to intuite things of a spiritual nature. Listen closely to all it questions, and all its answers. The truth is infact within you, you just have to let it speak.

Blessed Be, J-A

Thanks for your reply again. Thanks for your love and respect. Somehow I feel it very deeply.

I would love to write a big response right now to it all but my head is full and my brain is tired.

One question I have in my head at the end of reading your letter is this... why do we feel this sense of guilt? Why do we find it so hard to let ourselves off the hook?

I know what you mean about being tired. We live in a hectic world right now and it seems that everyone is going in overdrive. I'm not sure why, but we seem to think if we rush around we get more stuff crammed into less time. Doesn't really seem to get us anywhere though.

The question about guilt is a good one. I thought about that all night. I think that inherently humans know they can do better. We are very competitive creatures, due to our genetics or maybe our upbringing. Regardless we are always in competition with someone. More often than not we are really competing with ourselves. This is good in the sense that it helps us to grow and become better at whatever we are trying to accomplish. It also has some drawbacks, if we do not accept that sometimes we fail. We seem to be raised in a culture that views failure in a very negative way. It should be seen rather as a necessary stepping stone for our growth. Everyone remembers a lesson better when they have made an error and then learned through experience and hind sight.

Another possible view that when mankind first became negative about their short comings they put a negative perspective on it. Because they couldn't be perfect like they wanted to be, they raised their children with the idea that they should be perfect. Even though this was never an attainable goal, every one started holding everyone else to this premise. Consequently it was passed from generation, to generation until it became the normal expectation. Of course it was incorporated into every aspect of our lives; religion, schools, politics, the home. However, since it is hardly attainable in one small lifetime no one ever achieves the expected perfection and thus feels guilty for failing the goals they were led to believe they should be able to accomplish.

Goodness, it seems that I have been rambling again. Not only that but I torched my steak. I guess communicating with you is more important right now than that. I believe very firmly that there are no coincidences and that I was led to start a regular communication with you. If I follow the guidelines from the Celestine Prophecy and send love and energy to you, that inturn fills you with confidence and purpose to your thoughts. The end result from this is you get clearer on your thoughts and when you respond to me, there is a message from you that will further enlighten me and help me to grow. So you see learning and growing is an endless process, a flow of energy if you will between souls that are searching for their truths.

I'm glad that you can sense the love and respect I feel towards you. Love is all around us, all we need to do is accept it and then share it with others. I have great respect for anyone with the courage to ask themselves and others hard questions about the meaning of our lives in this world. All to many people seem to drift through their existence without any thought on these subjects. At times that distress's me, other times I sense that maybe this time around for them they are simply a lesson to the rest of us to pay more attention, or maybe they are just in a resting spot on their own journey's. Either way, who am I to judge anyone else in the way they are handling their journey.

Marty,

I have not read the celestine thing, but have been requested to by a friend who is not saved, does not know Jesus and says I'm religious. I say I am spiritual as by definition, religious could explain superman!

Anyway, having read excerpts of the cp thing and reading your letter to your friend I am compelled to agree that it is obviously new age, which as you more succinctly wrote is a lie from the pit of hell! when any man or person takes part of the word of God and contorts it to fit there own self-serving purpose, it is satanic, humanistic and a lie. In this world there are but two kingdoms, God's Kingdom and Satan's kingdom who is out to lie, rob and kill. If you don't stand on the word of God, guess who's kingdom you are in? the other thought I would extend is this. In every religion, post-modern or new age thing, man is seeking God who seems to be lost. some, as the new age thing, often forget God and are seeking fulfillment, or angels, or self-actualization or some form of higher attainment through their own works, deeds, meditation or whatever. In each case however it is man doing the seeking for a God who seems to be lost. ONLY in Christianity and nothing else, is God seeking LOST man! Call it role reversal, denial, whatever, but when the power to find fulfillment is left to the hand of man, born of sin and not of God, it is a lie from the pit of hell, it is satanic and it must be rebuked in the name of Jesus. The one Holy Scripture says that if we believe the "truths" of false prophets we will assume the curses of them. Thanks, but no thanks. God is seeking us as a result of the Adamic covenant being broken by Adam and Eve as you stated. His love for us was poured out for us in blood at Calvary and anything thing that denies Jesus as the Saviour is evil. Remember, Lucifer was an angel and fell from grace as a result of his jealousy of Christ. He is out to destroy the works of Christ, nothing more, nothing less! If Christ wasn't the Messiah prophesied about for hundreds of years before His arrival, why would Satan waste all this energy trying to destroy the works of Christ. Satan knows He is defeated, He knows God knows the date it will come to pass with the Second Coming of Christ and He is trying to lie and make people not believe in Christ, because he knows scripture to be the word of God and that he is defeated. Anyway, thanks for sharing your insights, I will not now have to waste my time reading such faithless banality and I can summarize my thoughts from yours and others efforts. God bless and keep focused on the one and true God,

klip

Thanks. Do you mind if I add your response to my responses page?

I have been spending a lot of time replying to many people who have read the letter. There is a lot to learn from other people's spiritual journey. You have really summed it up though by saying

I'm going to spend some time looking at the centrality of Christ. Only in Him do I see any real substance and security. Everything else is shaky.

Pray for me.

Thankyou.

Marty

Dear Sir,

That's a bit formal of me isn't it? Sorry about that.

I just wanted to say that I can respect your need for self delusion yet, I wholeheartedly disagree with your thoughts on "The Celestine Prophesy". I guess that is why America is so great--we can agree to disagree.

I just have a couple of questions for you and I ask that you not try to use the jagged little Christian cookie to render your answers to me.

1. What are your thoughts on reincarnation? You mentioned Constantine's deplorable behavior in your letter. What about the fact that despite the fact that reincarnation could be found in many of the early works of the church? Justinian had it removed from the Bible in the 5th court of Constantinople in ca. 555 AD. Guess he couldn't bear thinking he might come back as a peasant after ruling the known world of the time.

2. Why are you so threatened by this book? To generate such controversy after reading it makes me wonder if you might just know that the truth is much more than what we have been spoon-fed by the church for the last several hundred years.

3. Since many of the world's cultures pre-date Christianity or even Judeism by a long shot, why is your religious view more valid than theirs? For instance, the world's oldest spiritual thought is Hinduism. Does it not teach the same ten rules for being a spiritual person? For that matter, with the exception of Satanism (which is highly suspect as a religion at all since satan is only what we make of him)do not all of the world's religious pathways teach the same rules?

4. And what about the fact that more blood has been shed trying to convert the peoples of the world to Christianity than all other disciplines combined? Cases in point would be the crusades and the

Spanish Inquisition.

I am truly not trying to convert you. I respect people's right to individuate their spirituality most highly. I simply want to know what you think on these issues. You seem to be a very learned person and I find your thoughts intriguing. Write back if you like.

By the way, my name is Rob.

Learned... learning maybe. The friend that gave me the book gave it to me after I asked him how Christianity and the New Age movement fitted together. My main thesis is that the CP and associated philosophies take Jesus out of the center of everything and have nothing to do with fundamental concepts such as sin and salvation. Therefore the ideas presented in the CP are mutually exclusive with those of biblical Christianity. I can't however convince you to have faith in what I have faith in. That's entirely up to you.

Reincarnation... I didn't know that it had been in the Bible. You'll have to tell me more about that. What you said would seem to be in conflict with verses like Hebrews 9:27&28:

Blood shed... I don't know. Don't we all make a mess of things. The fact that we all screw up so badly shows us that we need something outside of ourselves to make us what we deep down want to be. I make no claims that Christians become 100% like Jesus. We should try. Unfortunately we don't. would rather through that you try to examine the life of Jesus Christ and see if you can fault him.

Marty

Hi Marty, how are you? I am a secretary at a Christian School in BC. This AM after checking email the Lord directed me to YOU, in a round about way. He said to encourage you. Marty, do you need encouragement? I want to tell you that your reply to a friend while reading the Celestine Prophecy was very solid, biblically. Your spirit of humility shone thru!

Keep on sharing the Good News, Marty! We've got a lot to live for :)

In Him,

Anne

Thankyou so much. I appreciate it so. I've been putting in the hours trying to write back intelligent replies to lots of people with the letter. So much thinking can do some damage some times.

Marty

JUST A FELLOW PILGRIM ON THE NARROW ROAD, THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS ON THE "CELESTINE PROPHECY" I HAVE A VERY INTELLIGENT FRIEND WHO AGREED WITH ME ON EVERY POINT CONCERNING CHRISTIANITY AND THEN PROCEEDED TO TELL ME WHAT A "REVELATORY" BOOK THAT WAS, TO SAY THE LEAST, I WAS DISHEARTENED, JUST AS THE PROVERB GOES, " GOD MADE MAN UPRIGHT, BUT MAN HAS GONE IN SEARCH OF MANY DEVICES" I APPRECIATE THE RESTRAINT AND HUMILITY SHOWN IN YOUR LETTER, THE FACT THAT YOU HELD BACK ON MUCH "CHRISTIANESE" AND STUCK TO THE WORD WAS REALLY GOOD. OF COURSE NO MATTER HOW MUCH CONDESCENDING A CHRISTIAN MAY DO , HE / SHE WILL OBVIOUSLY NEVER REACH THOSE WHO DO NOT WANT TO BE REACHED, BUT STILL WE PRESS ON JUST LIKE OUR KING DID FOR US! SO GOOD JOB! KEEP STRIVING FOR THAT PRIZE TO WHICH YOU'VE BEEN CALLED HEAVEN-WARD AND I HOPE THAT YOU ARE BLESSED IN EVERY WAY. - THANKS

JOSE/CCU MUR

Thankyou.

Marty

Hi Marty!

I think you're a very educated man and I just wanted to hear about your views on some questions I've found myself facing lately.

1. If God is merciful and kind, how could other people who love him just as much as Christians not be accepted into heaven? I know the Bible says that the only way is through Jesus Christ, and I believe that's true, for myself and other Christians at least. That brings me to
2. How can someone who doesn't believe the New Testament exists as a true document believe in Jesus? I believe Christians have it easy. We do something wrong, ask God to forgive us, and through Jesus Christ are saved. We must do this to get into heaven. Other religions, such as in Judiasm, they must admit they did something wrong and then physically repent or sacrifice something. I think that God would not punish those by not letting them into heaven if they had done as He had said in the Old Testament. Those are my thoughts and I would love to hear from you.

In God's love,

Amy

Truly a very profound question. I wrote a short answer on a discussion list to a similar question. I'm still trying to understand what the first three chapters of Romans really have to say about this very significant question.

Have a read of the blurb below and read Romans 1-3 and tell me what you think. What is your view?

Glad you found the site.

Marty

The mouth is the overflow of the heart and my heart is pondering this:

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all seem to have the same beginnings, somewhere around the Holy Land. Is it indeed then possible that we all worship the same God, even if only Christians can get to heaven? Jesus said "No man comes to the father except by me." but wouldn't it still be possible to sincerely seek the face of God? Jesus took the sin of the world at Calvary and so allowed us to get close to God. Say someone who hasn't accepted Jesus sincerely seeks God's face, can they get there?

Does God hear the sincere prayer of those who are taught incorrectly?

Does He hear those who are taught that you can only get close to God by works? Does He hear those who have felt a little of God's presence and so are convicted of His existence but aren't convicted to change religions?

I may not be a man of great fortitude but God is still teaching me quite a number of interesting things.

Hi Marty,

I'm writing a paper on new age spirituality and I was hoping you could help me out by answering the following questions.

1) What does the term "new age spirituality" mean to you?

A growing spiritual awareness of our spiritual needs and wants that doesn't look to any singular traditional religion. Each person can take what they want from each area without any concept of absolute truth that they must adhere to or abide by.

2) Why do you feel the new age movement is happening?

Firstly, as James Redfield's Celestine Prophecy said, people are dissatisfied with the old traditional structures. In 'western' culture, many people have been hurt by the organisation or have become disillusioned when they see 'Christians' not practicing what they preach. On the other hand though, I believe that in it's essence, Christianity is not lacking, people either haven't explored it enough or just don't want to be submissive to an absolute God. They want freedom, they want to explore their spirituality without the commitment and obligation that Christianity, or some of the other traditional religions bring. People would rather take what suits them from different sources and compile their own spirituality.

3) Do see popular culture (music, movies, tv, books) as contributing to new age ideas? If so, how?

People like to communicate what they are passionate about. The media will reflect our culture, while emphasising new fringe controversial issues because they grab people's attention.

4) What do you see as the new age movement's positive effects?

I think it is great that people are becoming more aware of their spirituality. 'New Age' spiritual ideas bring a greater depth to our existence. The new age movement advocates love, community, acceptance of people who are different from us, and self understanding which is good for society in general.

5) What do you see as the new age movement's negative effects?

Without any absolute in the world it is hard for an individual to find their own meaning and significance. For some people, their brand of New Age philosophy makes them the most important person in their world. While trying to elevate humanity to a position of greater significance, it really diminishes our significance because all we have to live for is ourselves.

I feel that a lot of New Age philosophy is just Christianity without Jesus; without an absolute God that gives us a reference point from which to measure our meaning and significance, without an absolute accountability for our actions. We can do whatever we want and indulge however we want with no concern for a god or others. This is nice in theory but what would happen if we all went out and acted on it? Society would be in even more chaos with even violence and disintegration of the family than is already happening. I believe the reason that this hasn't happened completely is because God's laws are written on our hearts, an no matter how hard we try to do as we please we always come back to them.

6) What are the implications for traditional religions?

I can only really speak for the Christian tradition. Some churches have compromised and mixed the Christian message with New Age philosophy to make it more palatable to a wider audience. Some people tell us that we can have whatever we want if we only believe for it and visualise it. Some water down our accountability to God and his call for us to be holy like him because that is too hard.

It is harder for Christians to have an impact on people's live because we are no long in a society which has any real concept of a black and white right and wrong. Without the acknowledgment of our sin and our need for God then Christianity has no place in people's lives. Unless people say 'Jesus is Lord and I am not' then they are not really Christians.

Christians need to go back to what the Bible really says and put it into action to show the world Jesus does bring a meaning and significance and reason for good action that no other philosophy really does.

7) What does the role of the millennium play in all of this?

I really can't say. I have no experience in these sort of things. I suppose we'll have to wait and see. What does an arbitrary date really mean anyway?

8) Are we in, or are we on the verge of entering a new age?

I suppose society is always thinking and changing. We are always trying to make it better for ourselves, better than it was before. That is noble. Sometimes I think we take the path of least resistance and try to justify it to ourselves. That will always happen too. I believe that one day that the Creator of this world will come back and show what is true and what is not. I'm hanging out for the age after that.

Thanks for taking the time to do this Marty. So I could properly attribute your statements, could you tell me your

22

Civil Engineer with Queensland Department of Main Roads

Thanks for seeking my opinion. I would love to read the paper that you finish up with.

Marty

Marty- I work with a Christian organization called Youth For Christ/ Campus Life. It is a parachurch organization which reaches out to teenagers with the life changing message of Jesus Christ. One of my students is engulfed in the celestine prophecy. right away my spirit told me that he was treading upon dangerous waters. i have been searching for a Christian view point of this book. I found the letter you wrote and am planning to photocopy it for this student and maybe a few others. i began reading some of the letters written to you about it and your responses to them. I want to thank you personally for caring so much to take the time to write to these lost people. it saddens me to hear the comments of so many who don't understand who Jesus is or that they refuse to accept His love and act of grace. However it encourages me that there are people out there like you who have a passion for sharing the TRUTH with so many. It must be frustrating to hear so many negative comments regarding faith in Jesus and the authority of the Bible. Just remember Jesus saves so if you feel as though you are not making any progress with people remember it is by His power and strength not your own. I understand this all too well when working with kids seems like a bottomless pit of rejection with no evident results. Perhaps Jesus will send someone into the lives of the people you have been corresponding with who will see the results. Take heart you are planting seeds. May God bless you and I will begin to pray for you and your efforts! In His Glorious Name,

Melanie

Thanks heaps Melanie. Is Youth For Christ an Australian organisation? I know of a YFC and a Campus Life around here. Where are you based?

I'm stoked that the letter could be of use to you. I would love to know what effect it has on the kids that you give it to. It is certainly a struggle to keep it all going. The hardest thing is for people that really want to encourage others to stay encouraged. It can be easy to become discouraged without heaps of prayer and support.

Keep on working for Him.

Hi Marty,

You thinking - Oh No!!! not another Celestine Prophecy mail that I must put onto my home page . . . Afraid so, sorta. Let me Introduce myself, as I have read your home page already (or at least bits of it) I am a Business Science student at the University of Cape Town. I am 22 years old, and glad to see you play an instrument - I play guitar. My style of music probably doesn't fit yours (i.e. hard rock/metal), but musicians must stick together. I live in Rondebosch, Cape Town, South Africa - have done all my life.

So why this e-mail. I too read the Celestine Prophecy a few years ago. I am not a Christian despite attending an Anglican school for 13 years. To me, I thought maybe there was more to it. I have not yet decided, which is why I am looking to stir up some feedback from you. When I read the book, I was looking at it from an essentially Christian background. I support the ideals, I acknowledge a God must exist in some way. But like many of the people that wrote to you already, I also see nature as holding some sort of "holiness" or something. To me, energy and auras exist, God is the name given by the Christians to (the same thing that the Muslims named Allah etc) the "good" energies without and within us.

So, you see, I suppose I am one of them New Age types ;-).

Anyway I started reading this book, and found it

1) interesting

2) fun to read, hard to put down

3) truthful in a lot of aspects

4) very open minded

I noticed that you also found it interesting, hard to put down (nearer the end) and you also found a lot of truth in some of what the author was saying.

So now I have had my introduction and opinionation - I would also like to ask you a question (WOW, This guy Richard actually wrote to me for a reason? :-)). I have many Christian and non-Christian friends. The non have read the book, the Christians not. Since you are Christian, have read the book, have given it a lot of thought, and read a lot of flack about your opinions, I think you are the best person to ask:

"Is there not a way to reconcile the Celestine Prophecy with the Christian teachings? It is after all merely a parable of sorts, not meant to be taken literally. All it really "preaches" is to be good to other people and lead a "good" life. Or are there definite anti/non Christian ideals in the book?"

I would like very much if you could answer these questions for me so I can discuss the book with my Christian buddies as well as the non. It will also hopefully prevent rifts in social functions when one group says one thing, the other another, and hopefully I can explain both sides of the coin. Constructive debate is the way to solve this problem I think.

Thank you for taking the time to read this long-winded mail message.

Cheers

Richard

Hey Richard.

I like your sense of humour.

The brief answer to your question...

God is bigger than me!!! I'm just a journeyer trying to understand Him too.

RE the CP... there indeed lots of good and lots of God in there. I think I've said a bunch of times though that the New Age is a lot like Christianity without Christ. It would be a bummer to follow all of Christian living but have it get you nowhere.

Jesus said that he is the way, the truth and the life. He didn't encourage people to be good for the sake of it or to relieve their consciences or because it was the politically correct or fashionable thing to do. He said to be holy because God is holy. And no matter how much we try we still need Jesus to be right with God. Us being good is just a response to our knowing God.

So my answer is a paradox... yes and no at the same time. Much of the New Age teaching is congruent with Christianity. But then again Romans says that the law of God is written on our hearts, so why wouldn't we make up something that is congruent with God's Way. The problem with the New Age stuff is that it lacks a personal God. It puts ourselves or others or nature or something like that in God's place. This sounds nice cos then we have no accountability... we can do what we want. But hey... as they say, the truth is out there. Gravity is absolute, why shouldn't the rest of the laws of the universe be absolute? What if there is a personal and holy God who made us in His image who we can get to know. Would you want to anyway?

For me it's not a theoretical philosophical thing... it's a relationship thing. There is a God who I can get to know. Why ignore that opportunity. As people keep telling me... you only live once!

Marty

Dear Marty,

I am a law student at Bristol University, I am 20 years old and a Reiki II practitioner (spiritual healing), this is what I think on the whole existence deal...

1. There is one God.
2. Reincarnation extends our life journey through many physical existences.
3. I only believe in what I can experience myself.
4. The Universe works on energy as detailed in the Celestine Prophecy. The experiences I have had using Reiki prove this to me.
5. The physical world is just the beginning.
6. There are many levels of existence to which we evolve.
7. The universe has other intelligent life with which we will inevitably have contact.
8. Religion is an unnecessary barrier in this day and age to spiritual growth and a positive relationship with God, which, after all is what we are all after.
9. We can all be in control of our lives and this does not presuppose an arrogance towards God. If we understand better what we are doing here and where we are going then our contribution whilst here can surely only be more positive.
10. Hedonism is not a sin - however, hedonism should not be confused with the 'loaded' version ie getting pissed and having sex with anything that moves.
11. Oh - another word on religions - we basically fall into them from an accident of birth, this is no reason to blindly follow everything they say - the world view of spirituality which accommodates all spiritual beings including Jesus and Gautama Siddhartha etc is the only defensible one.

Well that's sort of it anyway sorry for the lack of organisation. Although I realise how little I actually know from what I have learnt so far, I can see some of the edges of the big picture and almost everything that I am learning fits nicely into it.

Neil

I have a couple of questions...

You say you believe in one God. How do you perceive him/her/it? What is your relationship with God?

How do you know that reincarnation is a reality? Have you experienced it?

How do you know you know? I am looking into this myself at the moment.

I would be interested to hear more about how you have learned about these things and your experiences with them.

Marty

Hello,

My name is Matt. I just finished reading the celestine prophecy last night (at about 2:30 in the morning. i find that good books can be very addicting.) i went to yahoo today to see if i could find anything more about it. i tend to do that recently. ever since i became a spiritualist. i am part of what they call the New Age movement. i really don't think it is very new at all.

i believe that this movement started because people wanted to find answers to the unanswerable questions. in fact this is what every religion has strived to accomplish. i personally believe that it does not matter what you believe only that you believe in something.

i believe in a god that gave me three things. my life. everyone and everything around me. and finally (perhaps the most important) the free will to do what i choose to do. i don't think man (by man i mean human beings.

even though the term has recently been criticized for its political uncorrectness) is inherently evil or that we are born in sin. i believe we are inherently good. we sometimes make the "wrong" choices. i say wrong in parenthesis because making a wrong choice means that we found out after making it that it is not Who We Are. it doesn't mean we were bad just that we were incorrect. i don't think god would "punish" us for being incorrect.

the example i would use would be: imagine your driving down the road to a friends house. you come to a fork in the road. you turn left only to find after an hour of searching that you should have turned right. now you friend won't call you evil and punish you for turning left. God is our friend, and if sometimes we make the wrong turn on the road to his "house" does not mean that he will punish us for the rest of eternity.  

after reading you letter and your responses to the questions of others. I kept thinking of the book that made me a spiritualist in the first place. It's title is Conversations With God--an uncommon dialogue by Neale Donald Walsch. i have to ask you if you have read it and if so what are your views on it. if you haven't read it, i would suggest that you check it out. it is a trilogy Book 1, Book 2, and Book 3.

there is a website for the book also: www.conversationswithgod.org understand that i am not attacking you in anyway. i am on my own search for the truth and your letter and responses intrigued me. this letter isn't too elegant, because i am not the best of writers. i would appreciate it greatly if you could please send a response to me when you can.

i thank you in advance for reading this.

peace always

-matt

Thanks so much for writing. It's so great to be able to meet people over the Internet and share their spiritual journeys.

The Celestine Prophecy is an addictive book. It's really easy to read and hard to put down.

I'll try to respond to what you've said the best I know how from my experience and background. In matters of the spiritual it's hard to be 110% sure of anything. Have you read any of Scott Peck's stuff? He's my favourite author at the moment. He's big on the concept of paradox, that there is not always a single simple black and white answer to every problem.

I suppose I'm saying that I don't just want to give a straight fundamentalist Christian response because I know that there is much more to life than the little amount that I know, but I'll do my best anyway.

We live in interesting times. We have come from Modernism where everything is black and white and if it can't be proved then it can't exist to Postmodern times where it's cool to believe whatever you want. 

As an engineer my training says that, like simple laws of physics, there must be some absolute when it all comes down to it. No matter how much I try to believe that gravity makes things fall up, things will always fall down. What I am saying is that deep down I believe in truth and absolute.

We may spend our lives trying to grapple with who or what God is, but that doesn't change who God really is. God is still God. God is still the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Sometimes we create our own gods cos they're easier to understand and worship than other pictures of God that other people believe in. Think of Santa! He has all the attributes of God without the judgement aspect that the Bible presents. We set up our own images of God that suit us. But if God is God, what does he think of this? How do you get to know God without some revelation to show you what He is like?

Concerning what you said about sin... Personally I believe that sin is choosing to live without God. Of our own nature we want to do our own thing. We want to be God of our own lives. God gives us free will to do that. It is God that comes in and makes us want to do God's will when we surrender our will to Him.

When it comes to Heaven and Hell I see it as God respecting our free will and letting us go on living without him as God of our lives. That also means that we loose out on all the good things that He brings to this world. Heaven is the opposite. It is where people who want to be with God go, people that would enjoy worshipping God and not themselves for the rest of eternity.

You gave the analogy of someone driving down the road. Many of us are driving down the road looking for the way to God's place. We have this hole in our hearts that can only be filled by fellowship with God (Blaise Pascal). Jesus told a parable in Matthew 22 about a great King (God) who held a banquet for his Son (Jesus). He invited all these guest but they had better things to do than come to the banquet (heaven). I suppose that's like us if we were driving down the road with an invitation to the wedding banquet and said, 'stuff it, I don't feel like going to the silly banquet. I'd rather go to the beach. I never really liked the guy much anyway.'

For me the invitation is what I read in the Bible. I have the invitation to come to the banquet and hang out with God. It is all written down in black and white in the Bible and for me to ignore that would be pretty arrogant to God. If you haven't got a roadmap though you can't be expected to get to the right place. Without some sort of revelation (the Bible) from God it's going to be damn hard to guess your way to God's place don't you think?

No, I haven't read Conversations with God. I'll do my best to check it out on at the address you gave me. Did you check out other people's responses to the article you read and my responses? I'd love to know what you think. I'm also working on an article that covers a lot of the issues that people have discussed with me after reading the Celestine Blasphemy.

In summary, I think it is a great and honourable thing to search for God. Without some revelation from God on how to get to know God then we just end up worshipping what He has created or our own made up version of God. Jesus came so that we could know God. Only Jesus could invite us to heaven and show us the way there because he is from heaven and he is God.

There are many things that I have yet to learn, but as a Christian I am glad that I have a solid foundation on which to build upon.

Looking forward to hearing from you again.

Hello again,

after reading your response to my letter and thinking again about your letter and responses to others, i find it interesting that we agree about a lot of things. we only differ on the process. the process i am referring to is life. in your reply to me you said that unless we have some revelation from God on how to get to know God then we just end up worshipping what He has created or our own made up version of God. i agree on that. i think though that the revelation has been given to everyone if only we look for it with our souls not just our eyes. this revelation is the universe around us. god is the universe. he is not seperate from it. there is nothing that god is not.

GOD IS. god is you, me, the guy across the street, the street itself. The revelation that we should all see is that we are not seperate from each other or god. i don't go around telling people that i am god though. that defeats the purpose. my purpose is life is to teach. i've known that since i was a freshman in high school. only recently have i realized that it is a much grander thing that i am meant to teach. no, not teach, share with everyone I meet. for since we are all one then the best thing i could do for myself is to help others, and to do what i feel is right. at their heart this is the true meaning of all religions. to foster a sense of community with each other and god. contrary to what most believe though i don't see god as a separate entity.  

it is late when i write this so i find that my mind rambles while typing. I think i have jumped around a little.

We may spend our lives trying to grapple with who or what God is, but that doesn't change who God really is. God is still God. God is still the Way, the Truth and the Life.

i agree with your statement above. my view of god though differs a little from yours. he is still the way, the truth, and the life for me. i did not always believe this though. i only "found" god recently. i was a skeptic. I used to say that if god appeared in front of me right now only then will I believe, i would love for this to happen, but it won't. then one day that request was answered. not how i would have expected though. the revelation came to me. god did appear in front of me, he is still there as a type.

because everything is god. GOD IS ALL THAT IS.  

i can't think straight right now. next time i will write earlier in the day, instead of 2 in the morning. I thank you in advance for reading this.  

peace always

-matt

That was really beautiful Matt. You really summarised a lot of things that I am really passionate about; community and the best thing to do for God is to honour those made in him image. You put it so eloquently really, even though you said your brain was gone at 2am.

Romans 1:20 says basically what you said:

'For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.' 

I was taught by a friend that there are three levels of God's revelation to us:

1. Creation

2. God's Word.

3. Jesus. 

Christianity says that without God coming into the world to show us what he is really like we would just be guessing. Until I get to hang out with Jesus and get to know him really well I will still be guessing and struggling to know God fully. For now I have prayer to get to know God and the Bible to tell me about himself and other people's experiences of him.  

I believe that our sin separates us from really knowing a relationship with God. Through Jesus we can come into fellowship with God now and for ever.

Talk to you more later.

Marty 

I just finished reading your article on the web.......I must commend you for your excellent insights. I am a Christian and have been for some 25 years. All this New Age stuff bothers me alot.....because the Bible seems so clear....of course, we have been given spiritual eyes to see and spiritual ears to hear.......the Holy Spirit has guided you to James Redfields site and I am thrilled!!

Keep up the work, Marty.....the Lord is using you and your writing ability and talents to glorify His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.... 

I live in Montana.....I have 4 sons, 1 lives in Montana and the other 3 live in Avon, Colorado. Please pray for them that they would be lead closer to God thru Jesus......Isaac is a drummer (age 20) Dan is a cook (age 23) Josh is a mechanic (age 18) and Tom is self-employed (age 28). Thank you very much.

Are you in Australia? God bless you and your ministry.

Colleen Lee

Thanks so much for your encouragement. It's so hard to comprehend everything clearly in this world where there are so few black and whites any more.  

The challenge for me is to live Christ so that other will see him in me and be inspired to get to know him. That's a real challenge.  

I hope to continue to write as much as I can find the time for. I have a few more things that God has put on my heart. I am very encouraged by the responses that I am getting to the Celestine Blasphemy article. 

Blessings.  

Marty

I just began reading the Celestine Prophecy and have found it very interesting. I have not yet formulated any conclusive opinions on it yet but I am enjoying the read. So far I have begun the Fourth Insight.

I decided to have a look on the internet and see what other people think of it. Instead of going for a supporting view I decided to go to your site first. I have to say that while I didn't read your entire page yet - I read your initial statement. (I didn't not want to read ahead yet incase it delves to much into what the other insights say.)

You make some very good points and will definitely come back and read some more. But I was a bit disturbed by your comment of having a friend who was a witch. My best friend has grown to accept Wicca as her faith. She is also a witch. What bothered me about your comment was that your friend used "demonic spirits" to see auras. As far as I can tell the Wiccan faith has no devil. I know my friend would be slightly offended as having people who may not know better think that witches were devil worshipers. If there was some way that you could clarify or amend that statement to indicate what particular faith she follows I would appreciate it. Because Wicca is the most common faith associate with witches and there is no devil in it.

Amie

There are many things that I don't understand Amie.

Have you asked your friend where the power of Witchcraft comes from? I'm not into it so I don't really know. From a Christian framework though I don't think the power would come from Jesus.

I'd be interested to know what you think of the rest of the article. Just read it with the concept in mind that it was just written to show what I believe the difference between what the CP is on about and Jesus. I don't claim to understand everything.

Marty

Martin,

First let me identify myself... I'm a ex-seminary student with a vast education in modern and historical religions.

Ok now that i've covered that i'd like to refer you back to your page, which seems to be a letter that you wrote to someone about the book Celestine Prophecy. Throughout your work there you keep referring to the work in the book as "New Age" and think of it throughout the work as most Christians do to everything that is considered even minutly occultish. This is a rather blind viewpoint that quite honestly is taught only in the modern Bible and the Koran.

There are several rules that are taught to all Christians as well as 90% of all religons in the world... that if you love yourself that you will love the world. 

The bible always proclaims life on this plane of existence to be a vast learning experience.. one brief conflict at a time and the Bible clearly points out that there is nothing God puts onto your shoulders that you are not meant to deal with or able to carry upon you into the future. This is very clear and is taught to almost every child brought up in a Christian Home ( not to mention every Buddist Child, Hindu child, muslim child and new age child ).  

Let me clarify where I'mi'm going with this... The Celestine Prophecy like all works in and of themselves, are conflicts to be dealt with.

All works even those in the Bible hold differing meanings to everyone who reads them.. For instance a Christian would see the ghosts in the Dikens story about Scrooge to be a fiction since Christians ( mainline anyway ) do not believe in Ghosts... A Muslim would see them as a curse upon the mans soul because he attracts unsleeping spirits... Wiccans would see it as a blessing based on the idea of spirit guides come from the other side to lead him back on the path to the new world ( and come to think of so would most New Agers). Hmm come to think of that many New Agers would probably attune Scrooges wandering through time to either a Spirit Guide, a NDE ( Near Death Experience ) or OBE (out of body experience ).  

Ok to another point. You seem to think that this new age belief that we should make ourselves more than we are and that it is necessary to become more like god in order to be complete is actually a blasphemy to the teachings. That becoming whole means discarding the teachings to God. Nonsense, humans are the image of God.. created to be just that..

The apple in the garden of Eden wasn't a mistake. God doesn't make mistakes... and that's what the Celestine Prophecy teaches lock stock and barrel that everything happens for a reason and you either can or can't bear it... its the I can't reaction that causes the lack of faith and belief in even the most devote follower of any religion.. I.e. it goes against the bare teachings of Love Yourself and you'll love the world, and NO burden to too big to deal with that I mentioned above... The C.P. demands directly that people are to blame for happens to them, not any other people. It makes it quite clear that the one given factor in all the bad things that happen to you is YOU. Making yourself responsible for your own self is what a Christian is supposed to do.

How can we possible treat others as we would want to be treated and love our neighbors as ourselves if we are completely in capable of understanding that we are responsible consciencely or not for everything that happens to us.. and SO IS GOD.. its just another test and quite honestly every time we take the time to blame someone else for something that happened to us we FAIL THAT TEST. 

The C.P. isn't about blaspheming God; its about Blaspheming what we think God is. God wants us to take the teachings and Grow.. to share them with those who need to be taught and those who need to learn more.

We all need to learn more. The C.P. teaches us more not about the teachings of GOD but of how we ourselves are using them.

Making yourself a clearly more responsible person to yourself can only help you teach others how they are directly or indirectly affecting not only the way they handle problems but there relationship with GOD. The C.P. doesn't remove its followers from GOD it teaches them how not to use the teachings as a means of support for the physical body and use it as a means of support for the Spiritual body. How to clean ourselves of the trash of life and its tests and how to learn more lessons not only from what happened but in how we dealt with it.  

Another point from the letter you wrote.. You didn't understand how love is an emotion and not a Body feeling... I would have to say that anyone who doesn't feel love as a spiritual energy doesn't understand what the words " For God so loved the world" mean.. I'm sorry to say that but the love i feel for GOD and what he's done for me and my family and all that I've shared my teachings with is definitely not a physical hedonistic thing. Also you used Modern day physics to explain away the idea of a straightening of the Spiritual energy from inside, man is this wrong, GOD doesn't give us spiritual fire to conquer our problems with... WE DO. We create that need and drive to do the works we do, to teach these teachings to those who will hear, and to fight the good fight everyday. That's us fueling that fire not GOD.. He's just given you the ammo and now its up to you do spiritual battle. The size of the Spiritual fire is completely left to the size of the belief of the person and the truth of it in his soul.. Energy like that can be created and believe me its Addictive and contagious.. THANK GOD FOR THAT... 

Furthermore you proclaim the need to become more like GOD as a hedonist means of convincing ourselves clearly that we are our own GODS. The words I said above still stand here, but I'd have to say quite honestly to this that no spiritual belief system that challenges people to make themselves feel good about the who and what GOD made them to be could possibly be hedonistic.. after all is that not exactly what all those self esteem seminars that the Christian church loves to do are meant to accomplish? 

Please you were once open minded enough to read the book on a friends invite, I invite you to do so again this time keeping in mind what I've said above. I think this time you will see that the book is nothing more (like the bible and the Koran in many ways) a blueprint for dealing with Life.

R Bunn

The purpose of the letter was to show the difference between Christianity and what the CP was on about. I really can't comment on anything more than that cos I don't know everything. The book was given to me by a friend that indicated that the view of the CP were in line with on an expansion on the Christian beliefs. In some ways the new age movement has heaps of the good stuff of Christianity but without Christ. I believe Jesus to be important.

Jesus said Love God and love others as you love yourself, not just love yourself.

Anyway, tell me about your experience at seminary? How did you come to learn so much about modern and ancient religions? There seems to be so much to learn!!! It sometimes seems daunting and confusing to try to understand everything, especially when more often than not the various beliefs conflict with each other.

When I can make the sun rise or not, I will be God too. Tell the people in Ethiopia that they are responsible for their starvation or the wars that ruin their lives. That's a tad cruel isn't it?

You spoke about self esteem. I believe that my identity comes from God. Because God created me with love for a purpose I can love and respect myself. Many of the people that have written to me of late speak about a belief in a God who created them but nothing of their relationship with that God or how they honour and worship that God for creating them and giving them life. Disconnected from God we are just flesh and bones. Without the reference point of God I believe our lives have little meaning. If I truely believed that there was no God or that I was God then I would go in for a life of hedonism. I don't think anyone can manage to believe that 100% so no one is totally hedonistic.

Anyway, no one seems to address the main point of the whole letter when they write to me. That is, the New Age and all the associated religions say that you are your own God and make your own salvation, Christianity says that Jesus is our salvation. Salvation is outside of ourselves. It is a gift from God. We just spend the rest of eternity celebrating God and his grace and the rest of his wonderful character!!!

I don't propose to understand everything. I'm just trying to say that Christianity is different and can't just be lumped in with all the rest in the New Age philosophies.

Thanks for writing.

Marty,

Let me just say that I enjoyed Seminary school... I however felt that somehow what i was being taught was wrong, the same impulse that told me i should do this kind of education was telling me that i was looking in the wrong place for it, so i quit and started to try to find what it was that the calling was trying to get me to figure out.. and I'll go ahead and say that no matter how many religions i read, write about, or observe first hand I've still not gotten that feeling that I'm anywhere close... 

> What made you feel that the essence of meaning was separate from Christianity? 

You said in your reply that no ones answered the question about why they're trying to be more like God and seeming to ignore their need to be dedicated to their ideals of Christianity... OK I'll admit its kind of hard to explain but let me see if I can do this somehow. 

> I don't really give a stuff about the ideals of Christianity. My point is that Jesus claimed to be God. If you believe that then that will affect so much of your life and will govern how you see a lot of other things and what you accept and consider.

People were created last, that doesn't mean we are the greatest of the creations just the one he spent the most time developing. He gave us free will, free mind, and freedom to be. And in this he created a race of people ( and this is all people I don't follow the southern Baptist ideal that gays and people of color are not creations of GOD ) that could use those three abilities to grow both mentally and spiritually stronger. But I think that it is free will that gives us the ability to doubt not just GOD and his blessings and miracles but ourselves. This doubt makes us weak not just mentally and physically as most think of weak but spiritually as well since we lose faith in ourselves and therefore we loose control of what we're here for.  

> The gays and coloured people thing sounds sad.  

As I said in the first letter we are the creation that GOD goes out of his way to pronounce was created in his image. Be your belief that the ability to grow smarter is a curse of the fruit of the tree of life or the fruit of the first test to man, it still stands that people have now and have since Adam and Eve the ability to understand things that only minutes and seconds before made no sense at all. This is the primal example of what I call "GOD think". It's a simple task of suddenly out of no where getting that one piece of information that completely shifts some reality that you hold and expands your life. Whether its a passage in a book that hits home about family life, or a piece of advice given by a elderly man in a Nurse Home it's not the information it's the understanding that's the miracle. Your miracle.  

> I suppose the curse is that God gave us the knowledge of good and evil but will we ever be able to understand the big picture and not be confused? Is our brain and our experience big enough for that? That's where God's revelation through Jesus and the Bible comes in handy. 

Ok so what I'm saying here is simple. In order to learn you have to break doubt. To break doubt you have to see that everything happens for a reason. And if everything happens for a reason then why did it happen? As you yourself said, "Religion is a massive amount of differing belief systems that if you try to get a grasp on any number for comparison at any one time just become more questions on top of more questions." But isn't that the point? We only learn when we ask questions. You can only learn more about what GOD wants you to know if you ask him for the answers... 

> But what is that reason? Will you know the reason for everything happening? I don't think I will. There will always be a lot of questions that I will have to go 'God, you know' and bow down and worship him because he is and always will be so much greater than me.

> How do you get the answers?

So to answer the question... Finally huh? LOL (laugh out loud) I must be putting you to sleep by now. 

The C.P. doesn't try to discount GOD as its not meant to discount any religion. Nor really does it even question it ( though I will admit it does gloss over some things that are truly better off left out of the book since it clutters the message a lot ). What it does is builds on the persons need to think about the what and why of what's going on in their lives and what's already happened and how they can react differently when and if these things happen again. It teaches its readers to find a lesson in everything and Grow for it. 

> Yes, the CP contains a lot of good psychology that helps us to understand ourselves and life a bit better.

To open themselves up to GOD think while they're reading it and to continue to open themselves up to GOD think while they're living their life. Its not to become a GOD, it's to be closer to know more about the realistic parts and have less questions and more answers. It's not to create a GOD but to understand that there is one by thinking out the doubts and reasoning past the desires.

> Yes, but in some ways the CP says that there is a God but that God ends up being you. Or at least the most important thing is you. The most important thing in Christianity is honouring the God that made you in His image. Sorry if I'm being a repetitive smart ass in this.

And let me tell you from my humble experience in the Seminary school if more people thought the way the C.P. teaches to think there would be a lot less Seminary students and a lot more men of GOD in seminary schools. I can honestly say that while I was there I met a lot of people who went to church but not a single Christian. It's one thing to talk the talk, it's a whole another to walk the walk.

> Wow. I agree that we could all think a lot more outside the narrow box that the Christian institution trains us to think within. It's harder that way though. What is your definition of 'Christian' here?

So to end this I'll just say that I know that I've learned more about GOD since I opened myself up to that book than I knew before it.

I know that I understand that the world all truly believes in the same thing just in different ways and that we can all get along if we just understood that we all believed the GOLDEN RULE.

> It can be a confusing world can't it. But what do you think when some things people believe totally contradict things that others believe? How can you say that they are all the same thing? Maybe there is one truth and we all just see a little bit of that truth.

Until the Christian Coalition stops doing the work of the Anti-Christ... I'll be here....

Rob

Right on!!!! Preach it brother. I'm really inspired by what you say. I couldn't agree more. Each one of us needs to just make an effort to put these things into practice instead of just talking about it all. As you said, talk is cheap.

Have a great 1999. It has been great talking to you.

Marty

Marty,

My name is Andrea, and I am very interested in what you have to say. I myself have just begun reading the Celestine Prophecy and questioning how it fits into my belief system. I am a Christian, and I wonder if this book will help me understand more deeply my commitment to God, or if I am going against God by trying to use my own personal strength and wisdom to make better decisions regarding human relationships. While I am only on the Fourth Insight, I have definitely noticed strange coincidences. It seems pretty truthful what I've read so far. Well, I'm writing to you because I wanted to find someone to discuss this book with along with how it relates to Christianity. I read some of your page, and I think that we have similar questions regarding life and faith. Isn't it a coincidence that last night I was praying to God about what this book means and thinking about finding someone to talk about it with, and today I come across your page basically out of the blue.

Thanks for writing.

There is certainly a lot of truth in the CP, but then when you look back at the Garden Eden story with Eve and the serpent, there was a lot of truth there too, but also a lot of lie. Genesis 3 tells of how the serpent basically said that Adam and Eve could become like god if they ate of the tree. We have become like God in knowing good and evil but is that necessarily good?

There is a lot of good psychology and spirituality in the CP. But think about its portrayal of God. Who or what is God in the CP? You'll find it's either pantheistic - everything is God - or you are the ultimate thing in your universe. That is not the God of Christianity. There is no room in the philosophy of the CP for Jesus.

Anyway, there's lots on the home page and lots of responses from people that have also read the book. Have a look at them and read a bit more of the book and tell me what you reckon.

Marty

Hello Marty,

I have been visiting your page for quite sometime now, and was intrigued with the comments from other searchers like myself. I say searchers because I believe that is what we are all doing, searching for the truth. Where we find it is up to us.

I am a Christian myself, yet I am engulfed with the ideas from the new age movement. I am lost in the maze of religion, and find it hard to see the light out. I have a friend who is deep rooted into the Christian religion, and we always discuss what our role in this world is. He tells me that everything that is tempting me to go out and have fun, is the devil. I find this hard to believe.

I believe some Christians are too close minded to accept that new ideas apply to their religion. I strongly feel that The Celestine Prophecy backs up the religion and that Jesus is not lost in the chapters, he is right there underlying every page.

I have a dying need to know why we were put here on earth, and I'm not what you would call a strong Christian. I find it hard to have faith in something that I have never physically seen or heard. I am wondering why God would create such a wonderful and vast universe strictly on the basis of worshipping him. I also find it hard that the Lord uses fear to promote good in the Bible. And what to do with a person who has not had the chance to convert to Christianity, will he get in or not? Do you believe that being a Christian is the only way in? I find it hard that everyone else in the world will burn in hell for eternity because they were born in a specific region where Jesus is never mentioned. I think the Lord has infinite faces and names, and is in us and all around us.

Peace and Love,

Atom

Sorry to put a damper on everything but aren't you all overlooking the fact that there is no god?

It was all just made up.

Or didn't you know?

Search you heart you know it is true. You know it is. Deep down you know that there is....... nothing. The things you have believed you know you made up from what was told you. Even the things you believe that try to say the other things are true, you know they too are made up by you. Are they? .... no, really, are They?

It's a free world and we're all entitled to our own opinion aren't we?

Maybe the no God thing is just a story to relieve the responsibility that would come if we really did believe in God.

A lot of people seem to know a lot of different (conflicting even) things as 'truth' when they look into their hearts.

Marty

To all

We must stop arguing and open our minds and hearts. We must see that Marty is exactly right, yet so is Ryan and all believers in the Celestine Prophecy.

I think we are all smart enough to know that words are words and that they can be interpreted in infinite ways. Feelings are the language of the soul we must look inward. We must step out of all religions, step out of all books and see the oneness and the infinite, the universal energy, the budda, the holy spirit, god. We must wake up and see that these are merely words. God is all god is one.

Alex (god)

Thanks for the encouragement God! I always knew I had it 100% all together. (NOT!)

Marty

Marty,

This is not a letter to demand proof of your beliefs. That would be stupid.

This letter is in response to the stunning misinterpretations I found in the original letter ( though as a Christian I'm sure you've been flooded with misinterpretations of the bible as well).

At no time does the Celestine Prophecy contradict the belief that one must humble themselves before God. In fact, though it does not use the word "God" it pretty much demands a humbling in order to follow the insights properly. It is through love; of the world that God created for us; of others; and of ourselves that we can attain the higher "vibrations" The Celestine Prophecy says simply we were all placed here for a purpose ( Not a contrdiction of the Bible) and that the coincidences we experience are not coincidences at all but roadsigns pointing the the way to our goal, all we have to do is read them (also not a contradiction ) Jesus told us Yes I am the Son of God and you are my bretheren. We are his siblings. We are Jesus' brothers and sisters.

Jesus was and is the only BEGOTTEN son of God. He came here to relieve our original sin which was not rejection of God, but disobedience of His law.

The Celestine Prophecy is a work of fiction written for reasons I can only guess. I do not know James Redfield personally nor do I have insight into his soul. And yet it seems to me, that this work of fiction is pointing to a greater truth. That this world lacks the most important thing there is and that is Love. Love that we are commanded by God to have for Him, each other and ourselves. Further it is my opinion that anything written or done to further love and tolerance must come from God for the Devil, it is believed, can only cause destruction. Remember, all that is good is God. Therefore, if it is good it must be of God.

Thank You again and good journey,

Vidi

I was reading your page (yours and others' opinions of the book and various religions) with great interest. Did you have any idea what you were starting? Would you have put it on the web if you thought you'd get such response?

I'm one of those people who think everything happens for a reason - no such thing as a coinkidink! Synchronicity is not just a word in a book!

Your question about reincarnation in the bible - I don't know the exact wording but I'm sure you'll remember the section where the apostles asked "who dd sin, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

You'll note Jesus did not say "you speak blasphemy, that would be reincarnation!!" He merely answered that in this particular case it was not sin that caused the blindness. His answer gave the impression that this man was born blind so the works of God could be shown through the healing of Jesus.

My main "complaint" about what they call "Bible thumpers" (please don't take that personally) is that I can't understand why they think God created all these peoples and only "spoke" or "showed himself" to one group! I'm sure you're aware that every ethnic/racial/aboriginal group has passed down stories/prophecies from whatever they call the "spirit".

God was lying to all but the Jews? And I take great exception to the term "New Age" . Yes there are some outright newly created religions(?) out there but even though my beliefs are not all "Biblical", some of them are so "Old Age" the predate Christianity.

I don't know how long I can make this before this machine wipes it out, so I will cut it short. But I do want to say that I was raised in the Dutch Reformed Church, went to Sunday school and came away with that "seek and ye shall find" suggestion firmly ensconced. My "seeking" has led me to believe firmly in God, that Jesus is indeed "the master". And even though I don't believe that God personally held the hand of everyone who contributed to the Bible so that I should take it literally, he loves me still. He showed me just the other day when I was very upset and I asked him to hold my hand and give me some peace in my mind - I'm still thanking him for his speedy answer!

I sincerely hope that you will continue your "seeking" with an open mind and never think you have all the answers. I'm sure you've noticed by now we still haven't thought of all the questions!!!

dma

I respect your opinion and way of living your spiritual life, and i don't want to argue about it. I just like to give my opinoin about things and I always like a good discussion when it comes to these things.

I have several friends who have read the celestine prophecy and all have different opinions. so sometimes we come together and have a good discussion about it.

Now, some people say I believe it or I don't believe it. As far as i know it is't a matter of believing or not but rather a matter of your spiritual awareness. What I'm actually saying is that what or whom you believe in is not important to develop your spiritual awareness. The book is written in some kind of fiction to make it interesting to read and it has an appealing storyline. It only helps you grow in the things you believe in. I can't say i believe or don't believe in God, I only know i believe in myself and I have developed an own way of spiritual thinking. The more you get aware of things, the easier it is to find solutions to your questions in life.

The book also gives a hidden description of the meaning of love. When you are not aware you see love as related to beauty, and to understand that you have to know the definition of beauty. Now that ain't easy... ever asked yourself that question : "What is beauty?" Kinda hard to give a definition for it, but let me tell you why: Beauty is relative, for example: when I like something, it doesn't mean that you like it. You could say it's ugly.

Well, the book says in some kind of fiction way: "You have to open yourself to things and let the energy (love) flow. Now, if you can open yourself to things you see that beauty is relative. Try to look at it this way: Take a flower that you don't like (let's say you find it ugly), so you can't love it. Try to look at this flower in a different way, don't look at it's beauty but look at the way that nature(or God if you like) has made it to be what it is and why it is like that. You see how unique it is and why it is ugly... being ugly could be the only way for the flower to exists and satisfy its needs to make a living. When you look at things this way you can see beauty is relative and that REAL beauty comes from within, same thing for persons. So if you can open yourself to let love in, you are aware of this... And that's what the book tries to describe. I know it's very hard to look at it this way...but you have to try it, it feels great.

Being aware gives you a better view on life itself, no matter what religion. And as you might know there is very big difference between spiritualism and religion. You don't have to be religious to practice spirituality, spiritual thinking or any other way of spiritualism though religion helps you with that.

I'd like to go on for hours but i still have some work to do...

I also like to get your opinion about this and what you think about it.

Good idea would be to start a discussion news group about this subject.

Yours sincerely

Bart

Dear Marty,

My belief is that after studying much of the New Testament and looking around at todays' churches, I see the pharisees and the saducees still run the show. God is love, not fear and fear is what the current interpretation seems to be all about. You hear fear in the churches, fear in Christian radio and fear in Christian television. While we can hear some elements of Spirit most is linked to absolute paranoia about the future, have you heard some of the commercials selling gold and MRE's from"good Christian people" to be prepared for the Y2K computer glitch. These people are selling their products using fear tactics and the label" from good Christian people" to biblically legitamize their quest for a buck. Whatever happened to "storing up your treasure in heaven?"I do believe that all of humanity is on the edge of a leap in evolution. Through connection with the Universal energy that is God or however one gives name to this love energy, we are going to become a more complete being. I believe it will happen when we begin to see this sacred energy in everything and connect to it recognizing that we are what we are one with all that we see. Ever wonder about the fact that we use but a small percentage of our brains? I believe we are about to use a whole lot more of it. First thing though, is that we have to get passed our own ego. To do that we have to let go of fear. Fear is a negative energy that draws everything into it, like a black hole in space. It traps us and paralyzes the use of love energy to heal, as was meant for us to do. In many of today's bibles one reads about fearing God. From interpretations of the old Greek and Hebrew text I have read that the word was meant to be respect, not fear. Respect is a whole different kind of energy form. It's an energy form of honor and love in the highest sense. So, if we respect God then we connect to the energy we were meant to have. We heal ourselves(" Your faith has made you whole") and we heal all that we touch, as we were made to. There are pieces of the how-to puzzle in many places. I believe Redfield shows us part of the puzzle. Buddhist philosophy show us another, Native folks from many nations around the world have other parts. The only way for us to put it all together is to rise past the all to common Western way of feeling that one way only is the superior way. Western way is primarily the logic mind way , only believing what we see.

If we put logic together with true intuition, we will produce a different vibration and that's one of the keys. Sorry I ran on. Take care.

Nahani

Dear Marty.

Hi!

You don't know me and have never met me so I feel a bit weird writing this. I realise you probably get quite a few letters like this so I'll try to keep it brief, but I'll warn you I'm not that great at writing short emails.

My name is, in reality, Owen Kingston, and not Joe Durant at all. I'm British, but at the moment I'm an exchange student living in Virginia (USA) studying (amongst other things) Drama. Joe Durant is my 'host father' and I'm currently sitting at his computer, in his office, using his emailing facilities and running up his 'phone bill. I'm lucky he is such a nice guy.

For the record, I found your homepage via the 'Celestine' route. I was leant the book by an American friend of mine and finished reading it yesterday. I sat down at the computer this evening to check my email and, finding that I didn't have any, decided to have a quick surf just for the hell of it. That's how I came accross you.

I've been a Christian for most of my life, and a serious one at that.

I'm no big believer in organised religion (as you don't seem to be either from reading your essay; The Celestine Blasphemy), but I hold onto my faith in God and in Jesus tighter than anything else. It is THE single most important thing. I belong to God.

When I read your essay I felt a great resonance with it. It helped me clarify in my mind the problems I had felt with the book. I won't go on and on about it because I want to be breif, but suffice it to say that I agree with you in what you say about it.

I do, however, have some questions for you: important questions that bother me a great deal and that I believe require answering. I realise that you may not have these answers, but I feel that they are vital questions nonetheless, and that we should be aware of them and TRY to answer them. They are as follows.

1: Does the Manuscript exist?

The book itself is suspiciously vague about how much of it is fiction and how much of it is based on fact. Does the manuscript actually exist? Did it ever exist or was it just a product of Mr. Redfield's imagination?

This is important, as it helps attach authenticity and credibility to the manuscript's teachings. Was there really a manuscript written in Aramaic found in Peru? If so, is it possible to get hold of a copy for further study? Do any of the 'translations' exist? Are those available?

2. How true are the events as described in the book?

If the manuscript did exist, was it repressed as fiercely as described?

If so, by whom? Who were the key players? Did any of the people described exist? If so, what are their real names? Do places such as Viciente and the 'Celestine ruins' exist? Can they be visited? Has anyone visited them?

3. Is Mr. Redfield's assesment of the Manuscript's teachings an accurate one?

IF the manuscript does/did exist, then is 'The Celestine Prophesy' an accurate reflection of it's teachings, or merely one man's interpretation of them? Presuming that it did exist, I would venture to say that Mr. Redfield has not fully understood it's message - particularly his interpretation of the ninth insight. Note that it is the only insight for which he doesn't give a 'translation' definition - the main character never finds a translation of it.

I realise that you may well be unable to answer these questions directly, but I would be interested to hear your thoughts on them nonetheless. Also, if you are able to put me in touch with people who may be able to answer my questions I would be most grateful. Since I finished reading 'The Celestine Prophesy' I have been left with a distinct feeling of unfinished business. I feel as you do that there is a lot of truth in what the book says, but that it is mixed up with a certain amount of untruth, and I feel that God wants me to try and separate the two for the sake of my own spiritual well-being, and (most likely) the spiritual well-being of others.

I would appreciate it if you would contact me as swiftly as possible.

Any help you can give me would be invaluable. 'The Celestine Prophesy' has done me a lot of good, but I fear it has the potential to do a great deal of harm. Someone needs to clarify it's teaching from a Christian viewpoint. I believe that you started to do that in your essay, (Celestine Blasphemy), but I also believe that your work is unfinished and needs to be finished very badly. The teachings of the Manuscript need to be reviewed and analysed in-depth from a christian viewpoint and I feel that God is calling me to play some part in that. Perhaps he is calling you too, I don't know. All I do know is that I feel a very strong conviction to get to the bottom of this, and I would very much appreciate any help you can give me.

Thank you very much for your time, I hope this email was not a waste of it.

Yours faithfully, (no pun intended)

 Owen.

As far as I know the CP is just a fictional story to package a bunch of New Age beliefs into a nice story and nothing more. Redfield does though have a healthy grasp on history so I wouldn't doubt the existence of the ruins that he talk about although I believe the manuscript to be totally fictional. I think he says as much in the introduction.

I agree that more work needs to be done. Check out the comments page (link form CB. There lies a bunch of discussions that I've had with various people. I'm also currently working on a Bible study for a camp that I'm directing. The link to that is Truth at the bottom of the CB page. I'd love your response. Any info or input would be greatly appreciated. I hope it helped you journey.

The book of Romans speaks to so many of the issues in all this New Age stuff.

Looking forward to hearing from you again.

Marty

Dear Marty,

Wow, a lot of deep stuff on the page, I found it very interesting, and couldn't resist sharing my views with you. I read the whole page through and found all the responses very interesting.

I thought this might help you. Its more about me and what I have learnt/come to believe over my very short 25 year life span, maybe it will answer some questions that you have of yourself.

I was born in Melbourne Australia, to two loving parents. My Mother a devote Catholic born in Scotland, and my father a great and loving not so devote follower of the teachings of Mohumad (My Dad was born in Egypt).. I have always had a lot of love and respect for my parents and my two beautiful sisters. In regards to faith my mother would teach us the way of the church, my father never really mentioned his faith till we were a little older, but he became a catholic at the time of marriage. It didn't seem to worry him that we were not brought up by his faith, as I said he was a very loving and happy man.

I was very fortunate in that between the ages of 6 - 15 I travelled a lot with my family.. My father was a contract engineer for a number of Oil companies, so we travelled the oil belts of the world, I was able to see many places, many cultures, and many many different ways of life through the eyes of child. I have lived in deserts, swamps, jungles, cities, seen first hand what famine is, despair, death and a lot of strength and faith in the human race.

Now I am not a Catholic, nor Christian, nor any other religion even in that sphere of things. You mentioned in one of your responses that only Christianity highlights that fact that we achieve salvation not through "ourselves" but through Jesus Christ. The Catholic religion is the same, as I believe many of the other Bible based religions are, (Which leads me on...)

After returning to Australia to live and settling down again I began to investigate religion more.

To me this is how I feel about it The Bible. A book of teachings, from some very special and truly gifted people one especially named Jesus and his profound teachings (Which I believe they are) 2000 years of History have passed, even more for the old testaments. The Bible as an entity has been the cause of much salvation, but also of much death and destruction. I mean think about this. English Monarchs who saw themselves as Gods own in the world (Thier words were considered the word of God?), Witch Burnings, The Holy Wars, The Spanish Inquisition. I do not in any way see the bible as evil. I firmly believe and it is quite evident that the word of "God" and Jesus has been re-written, modified, elaborated (For the Good of God), to help explain to the savages, or to help make clear a point that wasnt quite clear enough that people questioned it, or to protect the church. Compoud that with the fact that there is good and bad in Humanity, and evil does not discriminate by a religious label. This includes those in power, and those in power within the church, men with the power to change the word of God. Humans Sin. Man, Woman and Child thought quite differently back then compared to the way we do today. Humans think differently today compared to the way we did in 1950's.

To me, it is 100% completely illogical, and not in my heart to follow the Bible as the utmost DIRECT absoloute word of God. To me it just isnt, for if it were, Humanity could not exist as it is today. The proof is all around me. besides if i were to believe in it, which bible would I believe in Catholic, Christian? or Maybe Jehovas? (Is that hows it spelt? :) One thing I specificaly dont like about the Catholic is it always seemed wealthy, and in power. While im sure they have done alot to help the poor and the starving, this always told me they could do more to help but didn't.

For a long time I was satisfied with this way of thinking, I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus Christ, and I believe in the bible for what it is the word of Great men, that humanity has distorted from the first time the words left the mouth of the speaker, or were writ upon the page with ink. To me it is a base, a starting point, a teacher of the basics, the real question to me was what exactly is it trying to teach? If I were there listening to say Jesus Christ at that time, how would I interpret his direct word? If I ignore the Bible as teacher for a moment, what is it telling me, the way to live? The way of God? How to reach salvation? There is only one God and one law? What is Law? Have the laws have changed? Who is God? WHAT is God? What didnt Jesus tell us? What was changed in the way Jesus spoke to make the people understand back then? (When he returns will he speak in the same way, or will he speak directly to your heart so that all can understand him? SO MANY Questions.. The funny thing is i guess the bible answer them all and answers nothing at the same time without the right frame of mind, even Christians dont agree on everything written in the same way. I think our minds and thoughts have changed over time, we are different now (eg. Its mainstream to treat all as equals now isnt it?) I think how I could try and explain basic medicine to a Christian Judge or the Spanish Inquisition, it wouldn't be long before I was burning at the stake, hung, or even worse impalement. (eeeek)

So that was it for me. I figured, yes I believe the basic way of life the bible teaches, the love thy neighbour stuff (As racisms was never appart of me in anyway, I think due to my close relationship I had with many different cultures at a very young age.) It all made good sense.

What happened next? Teen years normal stuff, bit of angst, bit of rebellion, drugs, alcohol, experimentation, (I was always very responsible though although you might consider taking drugs irresponsible in never binged and always knew when to stop, I consider myself responsible in that respect)

Things started to knock me back on track around the age of 18-19. Wierd things, things I cant explain and didnt try to explain to people, just accepted. Eg. I take it your Australian by your email address. You know how hot it gets in Summer, driving around in an old Torana. You would think it the worst thing that could happen to young guy. My Torana over heats off the scale, im thinking my radiator leaked again after just fixing it not long ago) I didnt even think, I turned the radiator cap, it exploded big time, first hit was my hand and it burned bad, then all over me, straight into my face. A very strange thing happened. (FLASHBACK (Not the lsd kind) I had two sisters both living, I also had a younger and an older sister that both died very young) I hadnt thought of them in years, I dont know how long, since I was very young, anyway they came to me there and then in thought. I fell backwards and watched the huge fountain of boiling bubling water fountain up out of my radiator, my hand still burned where the water had touched it first.. The rest of me felt cool and refreshed as if a cool bucket of water had been thrown in my face, my hair soaked and dripping I thought WAKE UP!! There were a few other things that happned that while didnt feel so significant as this were still quite uncanny to me..

When i was 15 i started tournament Taekwondo, but dropped it after a year as I found it more fun doing other things at the time. Anyway i decided to get back into it but wanted something new, so I went for Kung Fu (I orginaly wanted to do Kung Fu but there wasnt a school close enough when I was 16, but now (22) I had a car so I joined up) I had also done Karate when I was young and thought KungFu would be simular. Whoa I was wrong. It wasn't long into the lessons we started working in Chi, and Meditation. Id never been into this before (It had been tried in school during Drama and such, but i never got into it) Maybe I was lucky to be learning from the Grand Master of the Kung Fu style in the world, but I leanrt about Chi Energy, and I saw immediate improvements in my style and strength. Eg. I had always been very small in build, im 25 and I weigh 65-70 kg thats quite small. You know those silly games at fetes/carnivals where you hit the plate with a hammer to ring the bell. Im at a fete a few weeks later after learning about how to use Chi, at one of those bell games, id never gotten the weight past halfway ever. A large surfy guy gos before me (As my girlfriend wanted a soft toy so I thought Id give it a go) Bang he pounds it and the wieght goes up but just misses the bell by an inch.. My turn, i use what I had learnt about Chi energy and bang, I get it, i was very impressed with myself (the surfy guy was quite amazed as well and got back in line for another go)

Shortly after due to work commitments i dropped Kung Fu (planning to get back to it) But i had learnt an important thing from it anyway, the Chi. I got interested in this idea of an inner energy and thought maybe i could find out more about it, so I started hunting around the net looking for info on Chi Energy. You asked a guy who said he had a 3rd eye and was 60% reached enlightenment about what auras looked like.. he never replied (well it wasnt posted) Anyway I strongly suggest you look up Kirlian photography, I was quite facinated by it. To me it seemed to be proof (once again) of an Energy that exudes from the body. Scientists have labelled it as an undefined Bio-Plasm yet that is not 100% agreed upon. There a guy down the coast here in Australia who studies it. I mean to catch up with him some time soon I think.

Anyway for me things realy started heating up for work. I started a small company when I was 20 and we were in the process of being purchased by a large multnational comms company, so I was kind fo distracted for the next year. Anyway it was during this time I met a very special girl. She vas very down to earth non religious, not anything realy, kind of like myself. She too had some wierd experience, one extremely wierd and scary which i believe to be true as her mother confirmed it (and i believe her anyway), its quite bizar but another story all together. Anyway she had kidney problems which caused to her get sick quite often and there was nothing medicle that could be done about it. I was in Camberwell one day going to a games shop to have a look at some books as I really enjoy fantasy/sci-fi books of all kinds. Next door to it was a second hand book shop, so after finding nothing of interest in the games shop I went into the other book shop. Looking around the first set of shelves inside the door was new age stuff. I had a quick look and found an Australian book on Mediative Healing (I found it to be Australian after picking it off the shelf). I remebered in kung Fu the medtation stuff and info about the Meridians of energy and such and thought it might have something in there that could help my Girlfiriend as Chi energy had helped me in the basics of Kung Fu and strength. I bought it for her as a present. We had a little holiday planned to go down to the beach during early spring for a break from work and everything else. It would be a good read for her down there.

We go off on our holiday we also took our sick cat/kitten that was recovering from a BOTCHED and infected "fixing", she was very sick and we didnt want to leave her with friends. Anyway my Girlfirend was still reading another book and I had finished mine, so i thought Id read the Meditation/Healing book I brought for her. I found it very interesting, and from my experience with Chi Energy in Kung Fu and the info I found out about Kirlian I understood a lot of the concepts, and I had a little experience with mediation. So after reading quite a way into it, sitting in the cousy loung of our holiday house down near the beach, I looked up. My grilfirend and Cat were dead to the world fallen asleep together on the couch. I decided to give it a go. I had just read the section on extending energy to heal others, and was feeling very happy and confident in myself, as the book was very well written and cleared a few things up in my mind about what this was all about.

What happened to me over the next hour or so, completely and utterly changed my life. I could spend a whole fity pages going through what had happened, but to cut a long story short this is the basics. I ran through the procedure and got quite excited by the fact that I felt very different. Exteremly light, completely numb, couldnt feel or hear a thing. I ran through the visulisations as described in the book and it all went the same way except some things began to happen differently, I had entered what was described in the book as my own special place, a garden of my own mental creation, within me and far away from me at the same time. ( A number of steps needed to be complete to get here and as descibed in the book and once here I was "at peace" to use the energy at its maximum) I focused on my girlfriend and began channelling energy to her, using the right colours and method as described in the book and it felt very real, and I felt impowered myself by the experience.. This went on for some time, and I stopped feeling satisfied.. Then a thought of the cat came to me so i repeated the process. During the process everything else seemed to fade as I focussed everything on these healing tasks. Anyway after this was done, I wanted to ask (Myself?) some questions as descibed in the book and willed back the gardedn.. This time there were three people with me, (This wasnt in the book) The book said that once in the garden you could asks questions and the answers would come. Call me schitzo, whatever, but these people seemed completely removed from me, yet they said they were a part of me and had been with me a long long time.. To me they seemed angelic. Two were european females and one was a male arab. There names were Naatiesh, Noala and Jarod. The two girls said they were my guardian angles of my family, they were my two sisters and were waiting for the rest of my family, the other, Jarod said he knew my father and his brothers and sister and my grandmother very well, he said they knew him as Amehd. He was also waiting for the family. Maybe I had mis-interpereted the book, and my expectations wernt matching what was happening, yet I still felt in complete control and satisfied, I started asking questions and they answered them all, some I didnt understand. (it gets wierder, or felt wierd at the time) They explained to me that the world was like an angels playground, all humans were angels, on an evolutionary journey (I thought physical) they said physical some but more spiritual. Youve read the Celestine Prophecy, so I put it in that way, they explained to me the first insight, the third insight (When I asked about the Energy) and what the aim was they explained the ninth. In different words but man it was definitely the same message, just coming from another's mouth. I also asked about the issue with good and evil, (Why if all humans are angels are they evil?) They said there were lost spirits in both realms, ghosts for example, and angles that had abandoned hope (Faith) that we would achieve the ninth. (They didnt use the words ninth etc) "They have given up hope, and have lost faith in what they are, themselves and all of us that we can bring our two worlds together and achieve our goal that many many many of us are working toward. But as we get closer, our love will bring them back and raise thier hope as they see that there brothers and sisters are succeeding, it will work out for everyone in the end. Everyone will come closer together at this time."

I was on cloud nine and seriously felt a lot of love/energy. They went on and told me other things as well about me personaly, like that something bad was going to happen to me that was bad, but to keep strong through it and I would prevail. (I thought physical injury? disaster? floods?) They didnt or couldnt say what. It felt right that I had asked and recieved enough at that time, i was very grateful. In the book it detailed the steps about leaving and mentioned closing the session and releasing any excess energy back into the universe. My three friends told me that they had come because of the intense love/energy I had emitted and said to make sure I return the energy, I felt i had built up a lot of energy in thier presence and from the garden itself. They said we would meet again soon as we hugged and gave our good byes. As the garden began to fade into darkness I wanted to ask more questions at the thought of leaving, and one poped into mind, God? WHOS GOD? I/They had already left but my mind lingered on returning the energy, I followed the steps in the book and when it came to releasing the energy I realy focused and pushed mentaly to let it ALL go, I felt so happy and emotional like i was 100% full of love and just exploded across the universe. The celestine prohecy tries to explain it in the 5th insight "The Mystical Experience" (As if this wasnt one allready) I felt complete linked to everything, and to what I thought was without doubt God, still feeling as i did, but now minute in comparison to that which was before me in the vastness, nothing phyisical just the pure size and feeling of the energy I connected with, (like going from a 300bps acoustic coupler to a 10 mbit ISDN). It felt TOO intense, i definately felt way out of my league out of control but very very happy and not in the least bit worried.

I cant explain how happy I was at that point, beyond anything. If you have ever taken ecstacy (The drug) which enduces your serotonin glands to go into overdrive and release serotonin (The chemical that tells your brain you are happy, be happy x 10) you will have a 1% glimpse of how happy i felt.

I opened my eyes, I was shaky, completely humbled, crying with delight. I floated (not literaly but felt very light) outside into the real garden of the little house by the beach, everything seemed alive and buzzing with energy (I didnt see any auras liked described in the Celestine Prohecy but Things looked different) I looked up at the blue sky and bird I think it was a gull but it was brown and little larger let out this long screetch as it passed over me, and all I could think was "Now you know!"

So what happened next? (Maybe I should write my own novel teheh I think not) I promised myself I would do that more often, but days turned to weeks and I never got the time for some reason, things were changing with my work. I guess from my parents i had always an inherent respect for older (wiser) people. The company I had started and worked on for over three years, built up with a couple of my friends, and brought in another older partner who I was happy to see in the top position after we were purchased by the US Corp. He was now MD Of the now 30 man 5mil+/year tunrover company was having problems coming to terms with my input to the company, he realy was not qualified and either was I (Thats why i didnt accept the position) of being a MD, I was marketing manager, I had a great team working under me (Some younger some older) so I realy tried to help him with the Job (Suggestions on how we do things etc. My ideas had worked fine for the past 3 years and got us where we were. Anyway one of my friends (who i thought was good friend), and a my older partner the MD who I brought into the company 12 month previous plus a two other older managers completely turned on me, I was accused of stealing money from the company (By using other friends of mine as artists for advertising and giving additional funds to customers who were friend of mine for co-op advertsing. (Embesling) They fired me on the sopt one day completely out of the blue (I thought it was oging to be another lecture about me or one of my staff eating breakfast at thier desk, as these guys went a bit _professionalism_ crazy) No charges were laid (As it was all quite absurd) I felt completely smashed though didnt show it, a good friend, someone who was once completely lost, dole material, no experience, now earning 35K+ shafted me, an Older guy my ex partner who I brought into the company to help supply the demand we had for business and staff (The fastest way to grow was to merge and we needed to grow fast), he was someone who i truely respected as a person and trusted. He skipped the country for some training and ordered one of his henchmen to do his dirty work and give me the notice "Get out now" no if's or butts. The other two I should have seen it coming from them but I guess I let them get the better of me. My whole opinion of people changed, I was very very angry. I realy hated them for what they had done to me. I sued and won a pidly ammount for UNFAIR Dismissal (Wow 3 months wages less tax) it just covered my legal fees. I dug and found out the dirty MD had locked himself into a 400k/year 5 year contract, plus was given a further 450k upon acquisition of the company from the initial buy out. I relised he had been removing me from the picture the minute the buy out was brought up from the US. He handled the discussions, he forgot and misplaced our 50/50 agreement we had drawn up by a solicitor when i brought him into the company.. He never signed it, Why/ Because when we megred we kept his companies name (It had been longer in the industry, but my little 2 year old company had the US supplier and much better industry contacts) Now I was realy mad, all that great feeling, being on a high was very quickly forgotten, now I was thinking death, kill, vengence, destroy, smash his fucking skull to pieces, etc etc.. I investigated taking legal action with the solicitor who drew up the first contract, "Sure we could try it" he said "He didnt sign, a lot of time has gone by. We could win, we could loose.. being pesimistic id give it a 50% chanse of suceeding.. It wopuld take at least a year to go through the courts and at least 100k+.." Well i had just bought a house with my girlfriend, had a mortgage, I couldnt risk it, I wouldnt have had the cash to pay up if I lost." I had to sell my car and some other things, take some personal loans from good friend to get things worked out. I let some more time slip by, I was still very angry, I distrusted everyone, swore black and blue never work for anyone else ever and to never trust anyone and let them do that to me again.

I tried meditating again sometime after this, I couldnt do it like I did before, it felt so hollo, no one was in my garden, the energy was there but paled in comparison to the time before when i felt 'In love with the world and my situation in life" I came out of it though feeling refreshed, in my garden I asked what should I do? (What else was there for me to ask) The only answer I got or "thought this time" was to prepare, learn more, train, _TEACH_. Im thinking this great disasters end of the world shit was going to happen as I was warned last time I meditated, so im thinking earthquake, the Deep Impact comes out and Armegeddon, wow perfect timing. Although refreshed from the session I felt lost to it all, but in a way happy that it was all going to end anyway so who cared, I stoped caring about it about anything. (How blind can hatred make someone?)

Time went by. I tried another venture it failed in 3 months due to lack of funds, we ran too lean too fast. However i did meet a guy during this time and we were talking about mystical experience over a few beers and a joint and I told him my story. "WOW" he said "have your read the Celestine Prophecy?" He was pretty freeked out, (Not because of the beer and smoke (Well maybe a little, he was excited) he wouldnt tell me what it was about, he just said go buy it and read it and you will know. SO I did, A week later I drove by a bookstore and decided to stop and have a look if this book was there. Well maybe it was the beer and smoke we had at the time but I got the Celestine Prophecy the 10th Insight. I started reading it, releaside this was some sequel and stopped (As I read a lot previous I hated reading books in the wrong order.) I put in on the shelf and forgot about it..

Again another year drifted by, now mid 1998 I DEFINATELY still did not want to work for anyone else. I was still very bitter. So instead I joined with a friend who persuaded me to help him with his failing business, he knew of my background and also knew I was a half ok artist. He makes games for kids, educational games. We made a joint venture and SIGNED it this time, we just finished our first game and have brought in another friend of the family so to speak to help out.

So last week, after the funeral of my Grandmother, my little sister comes over to my house and see the book on my shelf. She gets all excited and says "WOW I just read the Celestine Prophecy and have been wanting to read the 10th Insight but couldn't find it!", she was going to get it of Amazon books. Again she got all excited af it it were something realy wierd that I had the book, even more so that I had ment to buy the first one but got this one instead by accident. She said it was all explained in the first book. She didnt explain much, just some basics about energy fields, and auras and Mayans disappearing because they willed them selves into another world.. tehehe Anyway she had loand the book to my other sister and her husband, and I wanted it, then she looked a bit closer at my book and found that my book was actual the 10th insight experimental guide, (Not the story version).

That day I went to an old bookshop I used to go to, I got the book but couldnt find the 10th Insight (Story) anyway, I read the book in 2 days. What can I say.. I was truely amazed, speechless. How can I tell this to people? I wanted to explain it to my girlfriend (I had told her briefly about the first Mystic experience I had and about the probable end of the world in a drunk stupor one night but that just seemed to scare her so I didnt mention it again) anyway I couldnt and havent as of yet explained this to anyone else but you.. Why? Cause I got on the web searched on it and found your Celestine Blasphemy site. It was the only negative site I found in a quick search, being someone who looks before they leap, where better a place to find critisim of this thing than on your site.

I started writing a short responce to some of your queries and accusations which personaly I find a little, well actualy extremely narrow minded, nothing presonal, you sound like a person of very very strong faith, and a good loving caring person the way you have responded to some of the people.

Anyway so I've written you my life story, I don't know why for you, but for me its made me see something very clear, I don't know why I missed it. My first experience, the disaster I was warned about was my ordeal with work. Can you believe I just figured that out while writing this.

The above I have written, to me is 100% truth, no exaggeration or alteration to events. Please don't assume I'm a drink swilling pill popping git doper either. I drink occasionally have only ever had 2 trips in my life and at worst dropped an Ecstasy pill a month for a couple of months in my hardcore raving days. A couple years back now.. The mystic experience I had was some time after my drug days. And It wasn't a flash back or anything boring like that.

So if you don't mind Id like your opinion on these..

There's lots and lots of healing in the Bible. I believe that lots of healing still happens today. Faith and prayer play a part in this healing.

Satan doesn't create. He can copy and counterfeit though. Maybe this is an explanation of the healing that you speak of.

To be honest though I can't really say how healing through Reiki and Meditation work. I would be concerned though about calling a power outside of Jesus.

I believe that there are essentially two powers in this world. One with much more power than the other.

5) Your own church has conducted tests that show Prayer and group prayer has a proven effect on plant growth and fruit production. Alternative tests show the same result for Meditational practices as described in the 3rd insight. Again where does the power come from? Maybe god is reacting to the subconscious prayers of the Mediator or visa versa?

See above response. I don't really know.

Faith and prayer are wonderful things. I find it hard to conceive that there is just latent force floating around that we can access without being involved some how with a higher personal power.

6) The Holy Spirit, halos, auras surrounding holy images drawn in all the churches, and Bibles throughout the history of the world. Why? What's the glow? I haven't seen auras as described in the Celestine Prophecy although I can on occasion see that things and people I care for seem to glow more than others. Especially, people I love, animals and plants. Kirlian Photography (Have a look if you haven't) shows an aura that has its own will (It will not mix with another's) Take a Kirlian Photograph of a person with a missing limb, and the limb is there in the image! Cut an object in half and for some time (I'm not sure how long) the other half remains in the picture.. It's a phenomenon, the picture of that BLUE hand in the Xfiles intro is a Kirlian Photograph. Cancer and Diseases show up as discolouration in the aura of a person when a photo is taken, even before the illness has established itself Physically. What does the Bible say about the Holy Spirit.. What is it? What does the bible say it is??

I will have to check out the stuff on the Kirlian photos. Sounds very interesting.

I haven't seen auras although I've been told that I had a great one when I was talking about the death and resurrection of Christ on time.

Just because things aren't described in detail in the Bible doesn't mean they do not exist. It does indicate that God doesn't think they're a big deal for us to get worked up about.

It's interesting that halos and auras feature strongly in early Christian art. I wonder if that was an overhang from the Roman pagan religion that Christianity was superimposed over??!?

Very interesting...

7) More scientific, maybe you could provide some insight?? Anyway DNA.. The core of the Human beings cell structure and everything we are physically.. Is this the link to our Spirit? What tells our DNA to produce bad proteins that lead to bad cells that lead to disease? Science has proven and linked Stress (Down spirit, low energy) to disease and illness. When the Spirit is afflicted does it manifest physically? What does it say in the bible about this? Is DNA the Key or the Doorway? The spirit/aura using the body like a person uses a computer typing away, when we don't concentrate we make spelling mistakes...

It's sad if we analyse ourselves down to machines without spirit. As you said before, prayer and our mental attitude does have a great affect over our body. Positive thinking plays a big part in our health.

What we believe about ourselves is very important to how be behave. That's why the truth is such a big deal.

I'm sure some other questions will pop up! Wow what a journal, PLEASE excuse the spelling mistakes it was because I type fast when I get excited and make mistakes.

Sorry to hear about your friend, but I think you were pointing your finger at the wrong source, what ever effected him it was more than the words in the book. ALOT more. But in doing what you did (Writing the Celestine Blasphemy) I hope you have learnt from it. Shit man you got a lot of response from it anyway tehehe.

I have learnt heaps from it and I'm still learning. As I share my journey with others I learn from them and they learn from me. It's real exciting.

Well thanks again for reading this, it's been insightful just writing it. My religion changes and evolves for me now everyday. It was strong yesterday, it was stronger today but not as strong as it will be tomorrow.. To sum it up, I believe the answer is in all of us and is right in front of us from the day we are born to the day we die.

Love.

Ade.

PS - The cat got better very quickly

PPS - Many Months later I asked my dad if he knew anyone called Ahmed. He didn't at first recall. I said he was an Arab, he knew the family in Egypt. My father recalls one of their servants names was Ahmed, he used to look after the children (Him and his brothers and sisters)

I hope you find this informative and not arrogant.

I really respect you for your diverse experience. It must have been wonderful!

Congrats on being the longest reply ever! You wrote over seven thousand words!

Blessings

Marty

Hi Marty,

Long time no speak. Was wondering how things are going with you? Very recently I have had a big change of opinion on what we last spoke of. All of which was true on my part. The surface seems so calm and right, yet what lies beneath the water are sharks.

I just wanted to say Im sorry for not understanding, but YOU have made a difference. From our discussion I have read and am reading the Bible and the teachings of Jesus. I have learnt that my fears of a man made controlling religion are incorrect and it is indeed the word of God.

Thank you for your help. I hope we can stay in touch.

Best Regards

Adrian

Wohooooooooooo!

Wow!! Excellent! I'm over the moon! Thanks for telling me what's happening. I'd love to know the details. Give me a call some time if you want to chat voice to voice rather than just through email (07 4661 1418 or 041 760 9245).

Blessings.

Marty

Well from when we last spoke i have been pursuing my feelings and beliefs and have found many wondrous things and have uncovered a lot of

Information along my trek. Some things were very strange yet surprisingly everything I sought I found and everything I learnt worked. As you could imagine I have been very busy.

Such things as seeing auras, spiritual healing, developing intuition, clairvoyance, developing ESP and contacting spirit guides. I’m sure if I had pursued these my abilities with them would have increased for I had beginners success in all of them. As you can imagine I was quite amazed, and it was almost beyond belief. At first I thought I must be crazy, but I progressed anyway.

A big break through occurred for me when I was practicing calling for my natural spirit guides or a familiar of soughts you could say. I had Identified my kindred animal as that of a rabbit, as I had always liked them and had them when I was young, plus my personality in some ways reflected that. The next step up from that was getting into developing my relationship with the three sprits I talked to you about in my other main email some time back. I was hesitant of this because from my religious upbringing as you could imagine. But i was also very keen to speak with them again as I had little luck in finding them through meditation or experiencing the intense emotions I felt that one particular time. So I started with the animal thing as I felt that would do little harm and it was only a thought pattern with no rituals associated with it compared with speaking to the dead.

Anyway from my study I knew it would take a few days to develop but deep down I kind of doubted anything would come of it but still I genuinely wanted something to occur. What, I did not know.

Anyway I live in the city in a small estate one suburb away from the Melbourne Central Business District. So we are very close to the city center. I was walking home with Tina from my sisters place (Who just moved in close by) And it was truly and enchanting evening, cool breeze, warm, calm and peaceful. We came across a small park (About 1/2 and Acre and I saw a cute rabbit, as did Tina. As you could imagine I was pretty supprised. Then it disappeared into the bushes. We walked on and crossed the road into a cleared block ready for development, and suddenly as we walked across it I realised, as did tina that we were surrounded by about 5-10 of these cute rabbits. Not the mixxy type you see along highways in the country. They were wild and cute with deep eyes and white tails. We were both very supprised (Me more than ever).

I went home and felt quite amazed and convinced that I was not going nuts and that these things were happening and developing around me.

It was also at this time I had just started reading the bible, as I sought to draw some parallels between it and my beliefs and all I had learnt.

But it was then I came across in Leviticus about not doing any forms of magic, augury and talking with spirits (Which was the next step I would have had to take to realy start things moving for me along this path). This made me hold off and put things on hold until I finished reading the Whole bible (Which I have not yet). Anyway I completed Leviticus and Numbers where it fully declares that speaking with spirits and such is bad bad bad and not to be done. etc. (The only parallels I can find are that this is very wrong.

And believe me I was LOOKING to prove to myself the complete opposite as you could probably guess from the conviction of my other emails.)

I have also been looking at much other information online about what other people have been experiencing, and have come across some very disturbing insights. Many people have gone on from where I have stopped and have started communing with these Spirits or masters as they call them. They mean well and speak of love and peace, but what disturbed me is that they are getting the exact same message I received a couple years back from the three spirits I spoke of.

Yet to me, these people are kooks! Yet are getting direct guidance from these spirits or perhaps some are just nuts. But because of my OWN experiences I cannot just say this and put them aside as nonsense. Check out http://www.eagleswings.com.au/channelling.html as and example. The things I have experienced and witnessed myself, the stuff I see around me, hear about and watch on TV are making me feel a little paranoid, but as I was told and as millions of others are finding out and being told there is indeed a "Divine Plan". The amalgamation of the Spirit and material world into a new age.

Yet something is very wrong here. The only way to develop these incredible powers and gifts are to do away with ALL fear and focus on genuine intent. Go with the flow, listen to your intuition or your calm mind, not your confused thoughts of day to day life. Let yourself be guide by your spirit guides and the energy of the natural world. This is happening all over the world, and the flow is picking up momentum. By releasing fear, we release rationale thought. Fear is a natural part of us to protect us from danger. By supressing it we blind ourselves. The same as if we let it consume us it blinds us. By allowing love to consume us we are also blinded.

Now there are a lot of experts philosophers, theologists, and even peoples from all God/Bible based religions (Christians to Catholics etc etc) and there is a lot of human wisdom going into it also, which in a way makes a lot of contradictions within the system. Eg. You must realise your greatest desire is your greatest fear and weakness. Understanding that, lets take a sample new ager, whether it be me or someone else.

Their greatest desire is peace, love and a natural world we can all live happily in and of course the ability to make and create the changes necessary to achieve this. Now lets turn that around and see that this is ALSO their greatest weakness. When you appeal to that weakness you hit a deep cord in the human psyche. So these guides focus on that, and so good, kind hearted people make excellent targets. These are people who do not wish to fight, or cause harm to others. They see NO way that they can make a difference, and then suddenly they are empowered. Step by step the see things that would have been crazy talk 20 years ago coming to reality. I am serious in that you can develop your own language of pictures and use it to read peoples emotions and thoughts with extreme accuracy. This is all really happening and people are seeing it, believing it and following it because they do not stop to question it. They abandon all fear and follow their hearts and intuition as they are taught, and they are rewarded for doing it. They want to make a difference and now they are being told they can, they are being taught how and they are being shown a "Divine Plan" that will solve the worlds problems. It’s the classic Holy Grail! The new quest has begun.

I look at the bible and see this has been placed down in black and white.

It talks of exactly this. You could go a step further and say these people are blatantly allowing themselves to be possessed. Its really quite scary.

I cannot even believe what I am writing, yet if you accept the fact that these marvelous new age spiritual things ARE happening, then you have to weigh it up and accept that while it sounds all fine and dandy, there’s a possibility it is not. Secondly if you ALSO believe in the Bible and its teachings and God says DO NOT SPEAK WITH SPIRITS, is he saying that because they DONT exists? Why would he. Obviously they must. So if you believe in one then the other must be regarded and so forth.

Anyway I have since stopped practicing these things. Although I feel as though I should share my thoughts with others which I will start once I have completed reading and studying the bible further. I also have some good study guide books that help. I am very glad I did not go any further with it. Since I have stopped and turned to accept God and Jesus I have felt somewhat fearful and jumpy. My dreams have not been exactly pleasant and I have never had nightmares before, none the less I have taken up my Shield of Faith and my Armor of God ;) and I know I am now no longer alone in this struggle. I feel much better in that.

I feel abused that my deepest loves, and the closest things to my heart have been used against me in a manipulative evil way. And I feel for others who have gone further, and solidified these relationships what the ramifications would be for them should they even try and turn away.

I am also very concerned for the future and what this means. In a way I hope my psychologist friend is right being an Atheist and saying its ALL in the mind. But something within me tells me great forces are at work, and plan has been LONG in the making for over a thousand years, and time is running out. If it does not come to a head this generation, then for the next generation it will.

Best regards

Ade.

Marty Kendall (of Christian Arts Weekend, SU, Brisbane camp fame) received this from someone called Robert "who read some of my stuff on the net.

This contains response to Marty Kendall's website on the Celestine Prophecy etc. Robert's response is a mix of a veneer of 'orthodoxy' and 'classic pomo thinking'. I have quoted Robert and given my comments:

I first want to say thank you for your courage to post what our creator asked of you.

Agree. We have a personal-infinite Creator with whom we can be in rel'ship.

He asks us to speak. He gives us something to do. "He is there and he is not silent"!!!!!!

But be careful that your personal views are expressed out of love, since God is love. His name cannot even be present in the midst of hatred. I know that you are passionate in your beliefs, but educate others out of love with your knowledge of His words.

So far OK. But. remember that "love" in biblical terms is to serve others as we do ourselves - to put the interests of others ahead of our own - not to put the views and value systems of others ahead of our own!!! Such love is shown between the Father and the Son of God and we are invited to join their fellowship and share in it and help others to participate in it. What love!!!

I would caution you that you don't condemn others for their beliefs. You and I know what we know as well as others who know what they know, so don't confuse them with the facts.

Robert Enochs doesn't like Marty questioning another's belief. Classic pomo. Compare with political correctness (pc). You are bound to think like this if there is no ultimate, no 'truth' out there, and thus no Creator who made everything, a real universe, real persons and real history. It is not pc if you think your view is right and others are wrong. So in a pomo world view, there are no facts, only interpretations. Thus everyone has their own interpretation and no one is allowed to challenge it.

But notice that Robert has challenged Marty! Who is right: Robert with his view that no idea may be criticised or evaluated, or Marty who thinks that all views - including his own - can be discussed, evaluated, weighed and found either wanting or elso those which fit the world we find ourselves a part of? Robert is telling Marty he is wrong!

Robert has challenged Marty. And we live in a world where we are always making value judgements and moral judgements - that's the way it is. This is not just a consequence of our environment, but an integral part of being human. We call it discernment and whilst Y'Shua is always cautioning us not 'to judge' ie condemn, (push away, reject, desire to obliterate) he calls us to discern good fruit against evil, to walk in light not darkness and to 'judge rightly' when we make an estimate of persons as we invariably do. We are off with the fairies if we think we do not make such judgements (= discernment).

Further, we can make such judgement AND love. We are always required to love others - to behave towards others so as to further their interests as if they were our own. And it is love for others that if we see the disaster looming, we lovingly, tho' urgently sometimes, warn them. Love wants for others what we enjoy, the hope (not despair) for the future. There IS a future!

As a reminder, I want you to remember that people do what they want, not what they need, and they also believe what they want not what we tell them. The 2 best ways to educate another is to show by example, and present the facts as you know them and let the individual make up his own mind. Do not waste your breath on those who will not hear what you say by trying to convince anyone of your own beliefs.

There is a lot of wisdom here, but notice how doctrinaire Robert is!

People will read and perceive what they are meant to see, just as one would when he reads the Bible, since they are both stories as well as truths for those who believe.

Classic pomo. But I believe that God has spoken in the scriptures and most clearly in his Word enfleshed in Y'Shua who declare he is the Way the truth and the life. I think that cuts out a lot of the Celestine Pr and its whole premise!

Love your brother, even if you disagree with his viewpoint.

But WHY love my brother? Only the scriptures give us the real answer. God IS love and we know this because he has revealed, especially in Christ and the gospel.

No one view is correct since all views are actually a perception of who is telling the story. Always be open to hear new >ideas, because the really enlightened beings are those who learn from >others as well as from what that being holds true.

Pomo has a lot to teach us:--

1. Not to be arrogant but to be open to others, to listen - we may learn something! We have been found by Him, but that does not mean we have all the truth - 'we see only in part' is apostolic teaching.

2. Certainly not to 'sit in judgement' and condemn people.

3. Not to impose our views on others - not to manipulate or disguise our efforts with deceit.

4. We all each have our own story and are all part of bigger story.

On first glance at your letter, I felt a swarm of emotions come over me. After reading what others had said, that swarm turned into a tornado.

He does not say what his emotions were!

I felt I must write you, not to express my views but to write what God asked me to say to you.

Has the living personal Father of JC actually spoken to Robert to say these things to Marty? If so then we may be in awe and must listen. OR is Robert being manipulative when he says GOD HAS SPOKEN to him.

Who is being arrogant and dogmatic? Is it Marty who merely repeats what God has said in the Gospel - a message which has been confirmed and experienced and found 'true' by millions of people from every nation, race and social standing, from every time and place? ..... OR is it Robert who declares that God has spoken thru' him in a special personal way as a message to Marty, which if true must be carefully followed?? Is this not an example of the 'will-to-power' that pomo proponents constantly warn people that the CHURCH (whatever that is) is engaged in ie a disguised will to power in its pronouncements?

But keep in mind that this is nothing more than a sounding board to let people express their views although sometimes twisted & filled with hate.

You and I know the truth, stay the course - it will be worth it.

I think Robert 'knows' (how does he know? what is his epistemology?) a different truth from Marty. They are not the same. the one leads to life, peace and true identity. But the other leads to death though it promises self-fulfilment, divinity ('you are gods') and discovery of identity.

Dear Lord, please do for Robert what you have done for this little one - You attracted me to Yourself.

You have found me and poured your grace into my life. I am whole. I am found. I am satisfied.

lil' bro ian.

Ian Thomson

Wow!!! Thanks Ian.

Would it be worth giving a short explanation of what 'pomo' is for the less philosophically adept out there?

Pomo is short for post-modern. Denis McCallum defines pomo in terms of the pomo thinker:

"Postmodernists believe that truth is created, not discovered. They think things like reason, rationality and confidence in science are cultural biases. They contend that those who trust reason- and things based on reason, like science, Western education and governmental structures - unknowingly act out their European cultural conditioning. This conditioning seeks to keep power in the hands of the social elite."

Pomo is the prevailing culture. Pop culture, TV, art, architecture, literature and even theology are being taken over by the incoming tide of pomo thought. It is basically a way of thinking, which if acted upon consistently, leads to loss of objectivity and a sense that there are no absolutes - things/truths which are there whether I am there or not - and brings in a whole new world view.

A good example of pomo can be seen in Marty Kendall's correspondent, Robert.

Pomo is a reaction to modernism, which was the end product of the Enlightenment Project which began about 250 yrs ago. Modernism believes optimistically in reason, science, progress. But after millions being killed this century, environmental crisis, world pollution, overpopulation, nuclear threat etc

Modernism had no interest in spirituality - only what you could measure empirically. So they dumped religion, including Christianity. A reaction to superstition and medievalism.

Pomo is raection to modernism. The pomo self is pessimistic, interested in supernatural - new age etc - open to all views. Basic idea is everyone has the truth - what is true for you is true cos there's no objective truth out there. In the X files, Mulder is pomo, Scully is fixed in modernism.

Get it?

There's heaps more. Wanna know more? Then let me know and I can point some books for you to read.

Fact is, if we are going to reach pomo people - most young people today are pomos tho' they've never heard the word - we have to change, not the gospel, but the way we communicate.

'lil bro' Ian

Ian Thomson

Hi Marty,

What an insightful thing you have started with your "blasphemy" letter. I just stumbled upon your page, read all 70 something pages of it (my poor eyes...) also just finished reading the "Celestine Prophecy" (coincidence???) I could hardly put the book down, it contains so many truths - too bad it didn't contain more!

Yet something nagged me about it, something just didn't sit right – yet until I began reading another book, related in subject, I could not put my finger on what that was!

What nagged me was the absence of evil, as if it doesn't exist. So very many things in that book ring true, every single insight I could understand, but it does not mention that we have an enemy, who wants to destroy our souls. An enemy who doesn't play by the rules - he'll lie, he'll cheat, he'll do whatever he has to separate us from God. Yet he isn't discussed, even though he turns the meaning of good and bad around, even though he can even appear as an angel of light.

According to the "Celestine Prophecy" everything has an opposite.

Without "cold" we wouldn't know what "hot" is, without pain we wouldn't know what pleasure is. So it just stands to reason that "Good" also has an opposite without which we wouldn't know what "good" is, and this opposite is "evil".

Celestine prophecy deals with the good force, but there are two forces operating in the universe as well as within the hearts of men and women - and these forces contend for our souls. God is the source of all good, and "the other guy guy" Lucifer, "prince of this world", "father of all lies", "accuser" is the source of evil.

What we have to learn is how to discern. Not judge. Just discern. Watchman Nee said it very well when he stated, it isn't a question of whether a thing is bad, or whether it is good. The question is, where is it coming from?

What is its source? If I for instance get impatient with my children, and yell at them – where am I coming from?? What am I representing to them?? Good, or evil?

I'd be a conduit to evil. I am an extension of evil - Knowing this then tempers me, because I really want to be a conduit for Good. I want to represent "Good" because I love God, and I want my kids to love Him, too. We win or loose our kids through our actions. To say everything we choose to do is "okay" is simply not agreeing with the truth, it would make all morality irrelevant, it would make the 10 commandments meaningless. We would only do that which pleases us, I am wondering - how much more hedonistic could we be?

Our actions do begin as thoughts and desires, but where do these thoughts and desires come from? Who is the source? This is where discernment is needed - it's easy for the obvious things, like lying and stealing, but what of the subtler things? Especially the "if it feels good, do it" kind of stuff?

Is a thought meant for the good of our soul, or is it meant to lead it astray? If we agree with the thought it will "germinate" into action, because we are giving it permission to do it. So we got to watch our thoughts, be aware of them - so we can see where they want to lead us.

That's why the scriptures tell us to bring every thought into captivity. So if I look longingly at something my neighbor has, there is the Presence in mind that says, "Watch out!" Yanking me back to reality. The corrected thought does not grow into action. It's our checks and balances, you know?

But we must be AWAKE. yet, how many are SLEEPING??? How many aren't aware of their thoughts at all, are day dreaming? Rocking to the beat of their music, putting their awareness to sleep through all kinds of distractions?

The bottom line is, all the evidence that I can gather points to a fact, and that is we have been, and are engaged in spiritual warfare. Our enemy wants us asleep. Probably his most successful coup is to convince so many that he is not real, that he does not exist. SO - now he has been sending his cohorts out convincing so many they are really coming as friends, as "spirit guides" who are here to help us on our journey. (journey to where, I wonder...) But are they really friend-ly? Question, where are they coming from?

What are they telling us? That God is great? Or that WE are great?

Hey, Satan is a sly old dog, he knows our egos! There is only one EGO, only one "I am" (which is what ego means), yet he knows exactly how to play to ours. Are they telling us, that we need God - as a child needs a father, or that we can do without Him and his "bothersome restrictions"?

Evil (Satan) hates Good (God). He hates everything connected with God, he hates mankind and he wants to destroy us.

People ask, "but WHY?" Well .... if you hated someone with all your heart and with all your soul you would enjoy destroying everything this person has, and you would enjoy to see him suffer.

That is the nature of evil.

Evil delights in destruction. I also believe Satan wants to laugh into God's face, he would "love" to sneer at him, saying that God's creation WILLINGLY chose sides, willingly crossed over to him. And so he tricks, lies, cheats - because you see, Satan knows we have free will, and even he has to abide by that. He cannot get around that fact. BUT - he can trick us.

And that he does. If he showed himself in his own true colors I think we'd all run. If there is only God, and He is all Love - then where does hatred come from?

It has a source, too. God tells us, to love Him with all of our heart, and mind and soul. He tells US to love one another as He loves us. He tells us this lovingly, because that's is how we can find our way back to Him, and He wants us to find our way back. Someone asked Him, "Then why don't you just tell me the way?" and He said, "I do all the time, but you do not listen."

And this is what Satan wants to prevent us from doing, he wants to prevent us from listening. If we don't listen to God, then we're open to listen to Satan - and he, deceiver that he is, will tell us hating is okay, that actually hating isn't really hating. And if we buy that line, that will block us from hearing God, period. It's like first wresting us away from Him, and then putting a roadblock in the way to keep us from going back. You can test this. Somebody cuts you off on the free way - how do you respond?

You're ticked, you say? You hate.

"No, I don't HATE, I got maybe irritated..." Excuse.

" I am SOOO mad at so and so....." "You hate." "No, I don't hate him..but you should have seen what he did to me.... We deny all the time that we hate. We want to see us as loving and kind, and wonderful - we don't want to see our flip side. If we did, we would be sorry, and get down to our knees asking God to help us - and he would. But we'd rather suppress it. Too painful to face. You know, I am convinced this suppression of the truth, really, is the root for so many diseases. Because the truth cannot be repressed. If we don't listen to it one way, it'll try to wake us up in another. So we get pains here and there, to tell us, "Hey, something wrong here, somewhere, better check it out! And what do we do? We swallow pills to numb the pain! Thinking, hey the pain is gone, so the problem is gone.

Pain isn't the problem though. Pain is the messenger. It says, "Wake up! Pay attention!"

Yet we treat it as an enemy. We're depressed, and instead of wondering why the heck we are so depressed, we pop prozac, or whatever else the medical church gives us to numb the pain. But the truth keeps trying to get at us, and so we have to increase the dosage of our drugs and the pain gets harder ......We are so doggone stubborn, I am surprised God doesn't just give up one us, and say, "blankety- blank you. I'm done." But old Beelzebub, he comes and tells us, the pain is a PUNISHMENT. That God is punishing us, and isn't he cruel for doing that. Heartless. Uncaring. And we believe it. We believe the lie.

Anyway - this is getting way too long, but in parting I like to relate a personal experience I had when I was four years old - for your consideration. Tell me what your thoughts are, if you like, I'd really like to know.

This memory was buried, forgotten, for a very long time. It re-surfaced when my daughter was very young and was tormented by what our family termed "shadow-people". My daughter would stall at bedtime; a glass of water... another hug... another trip to the bathroom .... and another glass of water.... Yet I could see in her eyes, that something frightened her, she didn't want to go to sleep because she was afraid to, and I asked her, "What is wrong???" She told me about a "black woman" - a woman dressed all in black - in her room. Of course I didn't see any woman, but my daughters fear was real, and I was stressing because I just didn't know how to deal with this - she was scared of something I couldn't see, and I was clueless on how to help her.

That was when my memory came back. I believe it came back, so I would be able to believe my daughter. I was four years old. My mom had put us to bed, gave us our nightly good night kiss, had shut the door and that was that. Bedtime.

Except - there was this man sitting on the foot of my bed. He was dressed in a suit and a tie, wore just the kind of clothes my dad wore when he went to his office. This man didn't say anything, the only thing that bothered me somehow was, that my mom had said, "lights out" - so why was he still here??? So I called my mom, and asked her, to please send the man home. She just petted my head, and said, "There is nobody in your room, honey – now close your eyes and go to sleep." And she shut the door. How could I go to sleep, with this stranger sitting on the foot of my bed?

He was not threatening, but he didn't leave either. I called my mom again.

Again she said, "There is nobody here, you are tired, it's just your imagination."

I was confused. My eyes were clearly "telling" me there is a man, while my ears were "saying" my eyes are wrong." To a little kid this is very confusing, because it sees one thing, yet is told another thing. What to believe?? Does she believe what she sees herself?? Or is what she sees really not there, as mother said ? This is major conflict.

And then the men sort of talked, but not verbally. He asked in this certain tone that people use when they deal with young children, they make their speech sound extra slow (as if kids are too slow to grasp things)

"Your mom is not believing you, is she??"

That got my attention. I thought. Yes, he is right, Mom didn't believe me, and at the same time I was puzzled - why wouldn't she? It was the truth..."

Yes, no- she doesn't!

He let that sink in, before he said,

"You are telling her the truth, yet she does not believe you."

"Yes."

"She thinks you are lying to her." Now that made me angry inside. Because I wasn't lying.

And then he said, quietly, "You know, it is okay for you to hate your mom."

Even though I was only four, I knew with every fibre of my being that I must not hate, that hating would just be horribly wrong. He said, " It IS okay - you are a good girl, you don't lie - but your mom is bad for not believing you. It is okay for you to hate her."

And I thought, "Yes." I accepted it. Instantly something within me puffed up, the man disappeared and never returned. "Mission accomplished. The seed of hatred planted in yet another little kid, and from there it would now begin to grow. Every time I hated, it'd grow a little bit more. Hate separates us from God. And Satan uses the wrongs we do to get others to hate. Someone wrongs us, and instead of forgiving them, as God tells us to, we fall to hate (annoyance, irritation, being miffed - I don't care what other names are used to avoid the word "hate") Look at the world today, everybody gets ticked off (another nice little ersatz word for hate) at everybody at the smallest provocation. You tell me, who are we really listening to?

To the one who says, "It's okay to hate, it's okay to let your anger out" or to the One who says, "forgive your enemies. Do Good to those who curse you"?

There is no evil, eh?

We are listening to it all the time.

Martina

Grant – Encouraging a brother

I just happened across your page on the Celestine Blasphemy and I

thought you were on to something but I was a little disturbed by your

essay. I just recently read that book recommended by a friend who is

completely ignorant of the bible and very into mysticism. Someone else

recommended it to me years ago when it came out and said when its time

for you to read it, you will (coincidences I suppose?) In a sense they

were right in that I wasn't saved then and might have considered it too

much. Now when I read it I can see its a joke. Nothing original in it

and above all pure fiction, it doesn't even deserve to be called

psuedo-intellectual.

How can you be impressed that the author seems to know the Bible? He

doesn't, but then again probably neither do most of the people he

considers Christian. You got one thing right about this type of of new

age mysticism - it is about not having the humility to worship the

living creator God and not wanting his truth. There is nothing new

under the sun. The idea of holding a work of mystical fiction in

comparison to the revealed word of God is something any Christian should

be able to make short work of. Lets analyse this Redfield babble and

get it over with.

Coincidences? whatever, but the idea that they are accelerating into

some new paradigm, consciousness, etc. is not borne out at all. What

are these characters doing in this novel? They're sitting around

talking putting forth mystical ideas that have no relation to objective

reality, empiricism or real science and natural laws. The idea that the

more 'enlightened' or 'progressive' scientists in universities would

defect to study 'energies' in the forest is pure hippie fantasy and even

pretentious on the authors part.

This historical consciousness? I refer you Hegel and his dialectics.

This is totally unoriginal and even old (19th C) Hegel is used in the

movement of Secular Humanism and the Illuminati to control events

(unwittingly) to the outcome described in prophecy relating to the end

of the age. It is even luciferian. Marx was mentioned. Marx used this

method. That is why Marxist regimes and revolutions were funded by

international money changers (proto-illuminati?) Didn't Jesus do

something with the money changers? I refer you to a documentary called

"Capital Crimes" - Jeremiah Films. Redfield's brief lesson in dialectics

is typical undergraduate crap. The church history part as you

recognized has nothing to do with real Christianity and as for the later

part of industrial development that too is totally unoriginal. These

people in the book who do nothing but sit around and talk fantasy and

mysticism are going to determine how to maintain everyone else's

survival? I refer you to Ayn Rand's The Anti-industrial Revolution.

She's not Christian but she's better for you than Redfield.

The worst and most dangerous theme in this piece of tripe is that of

evolution. Of course Redfield deserves no credit for originality here

either. I'm afraid that your faith is prone to wavering, or maybe

you're young and haven't been exposed to enough of these mystics to see

the pattern of their worldview and that it is not nice or at least very

naive. Funny that its here that Redfield leans on Jesus. He tries to

explain the resurrection in terms of an evolutionary transformation.

Bizarre, but not really - unrepentant man has always tried to work out

his own salvation. Then Redfield erroneously links Christianity with

the rapture doctrine suggesting that evolution is the dialectical

resolution of Christian rapture and new age consciousness. There is no

rapture in the Bible. Jesus is coming back here, but first the

antichrist will appear in Jerusalem performing miracles and claiming to

be God (or Jesus) how do you think all these mystics are going to react

when a supernatural being appears and promises a new age? They're going

to love it. God's elect will stand before him and the Holy Spirit will

speak through them. This is what were heading to. I refer you to

Shepherds Chapel.

Biological evolution has already been completely refuted. I refer you

the The Evolution Conspiracy - Jeremiah Films. Things change over time

and ideas build on each other and discoveries about the natural world

are progressive. So what? That does not mean that species change, came

from nothing, and give rise to new species. Breeds? yes Species? no. If

that had ever happened there would be of fossils of thousands of

specimens of thousands of transitional forms of thousands of species.

There is not one. Dinosaurs existed. That's why there are full

skeletons of each one right there to be seen. In the beginning God

created the heavens and the earth. (Millions of years pass. Satan

rebels and. . .) And the earth -became- void and without form. Then man

is created. All the races on the sixth day and the Adamic race on the

eighth day, the seed line through which Christ would come. A day with

the lord is as a thousand years. Now do the math and see when does

science and history find evidence for the existence of man and know that

Christ came not to change one jot or title and behold He has told you

all things.

There is one spirituality, and it is given by the Holy Spirit. Redfield

was silly to portray this fictional manuscript with no novel 'insights'

as something that 'the church' (certainly not the body of Christ) would

turn violent to suppress. Christians do not need to suppress anything.

The truth is the truth. These hippies in Peru are not set free. Its as

fictional as Harry Potter. We can never prove to Redfield how we would

react to the discovery of a supposedly insightful ancient manuscript

because it will never happen. But as for you Marty I must reason with

you, why do you even consider someone buying into all this when they say

you're brainwashed, oh ye of little faith?

You must recognize the mindset of these who endorse such a work as the

Celestine Prophecy. Haven't you discerned the hallmarks and fallacies

of a hippie pagan new age mystic dingbat? You're right that Satan

himself started it when he said "Hath God said?" and "Your eyes shall be

opened" and Thou shalt be like God". Eve didn't 'eat' a 'fruit' from a

'tree'; she 'partook' of the 'trunk' of 'knowledge' - trunk perhaps

being the body an initiating a flesh/self type of worship seen in the

satanic deceptions of chakras etc. which invite demon possession. She

was not merely deceived but 'wholly seduced' which conceived Cain- the

first murderer. "You are of your father the devil. He was a murder

from the beginning and the works thy father ye shall do." "There is way

that seems right to a man, but it's end is destruction."

Is this work or are some of the people defending it innocently naive?

Probably, but look deeper into this subject and you'll find its reaches

are not innocent at all. That's why we must be salt and light. Without

salt light the world is dark and rotten, and that's just what's behind

these plans and ideas. No God, no morality, no justice, no

individuality. Reflect on what you know about human nature and imagine

the outcome. That's why communism doesn't work. Utopianism is a tool

for the wicked one. Look into Marilyn Fergusson, Alice Bailey, and

Bertrand Russell. First they require genocide for the ends of ecology,

cosmic consciousness, or a new age. Or check out John Dewey or Carol

Quigley. This historicism and the man is the cause of himself

(humanism) or is of no cause (nihilism) is part of deliberate campaign

for elitism, genocide and the new world order, underwritten by the World

Bank, the United Nations, Planned Parenthood, among many other

institutions. And the celestine hippies just want everything to be

groovy, considering positive thinking to be the denial of the existence

of sin and wickedness (though it does exist - that's why we Christians

are called to spiritual warfare- we wrestle not with flesh and blood but

principalities and powers in high places- "You will not surely die. . ."

Haven't you ever had to deal with people like this? (Hippies, lazy

complainers who have done too much acid etc.) Haven't you recognized

that they are boring conformist hypocrites? Well leave them alone. How

will things evolve? We know - they don't. "In the last days man's heart

shall grow cold, waxing worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived."

"Be of good cheer - I have overcome the world!" Being doing Christ's

work when He returns. Enough said. Hope you are encouraged. Don't let

your seed fall among thorns and thistles. And please don't cast your

pearls before swine. Let him who hath ears to hear.

brother in Christ,

gbc

Hey Grant

I think Redfield is the son of a Presy pastor or something like that, so he does have a reasonable biblical knowledge, though he twists and distorts it through the book.  Like someone else hey? 

Thanks for your essay.  Sounds like you’ve got some thorough knowledge in the whole area.  Do mind if I stick it on the web with the rest of the responses?

You talk of throwing your pearls before swine.  I think of it as the parable of the seed scatterer in Matthew 13.  Some of it spouted, some of it didn’t.  People who have been duped by one person deserve for someone else to at least present the Truth of the gospel to them.   

Thanks for taking the time to write.

Marty