Tina - Zapped back to reality

Ryan - Brainwashed

Tony - A casual response

Jason - Right on brother

Enrique - Who is God?

SMURFlist Discussion - How do we know that the Bible is really the Word of God?

Nolalee - Christians are the most evil thing on the planet

Seraphis - Star Wars?

Derek - Polite Big Questions

Larry - Everything!

Jordan - You take the Bible too literally

Jason - Satan is Christian

David - Humanism & The Loving Father

Ophelia - Judgementalism

Goliath - The forgiving Father

J, D & C - A warm spiritual friendship

Frederick - Substance and Centrality of Christ

Rob - Learning...

Anne - Encouragement

Jose - Cognitive dissonance 

Marty,

First, I would like to clarify my position with you.
Having just read CP, I stumbled across your site...Or at
least found it on Yahoo and decided to see what was not to
be liked about the book.

I will make no secret of the fact that I am an atheist, but
neither will I try to deter you from your Christianity...I
suppose it's just as likely that either of us is right.  I
do, however, believe that I am a spiritual person.
What I do wish to discuss with you is a few disillusions
you seem to hold with The Celestine Prophecy.  I do not
intend to criticise you, so don't throw this email out
without reading it.  In fact I was quite offended to read
some of the rather...er...harshly worded comments on your
page...while I do not share your beliefs, neither will I so
offensively criticise them. 

I apologise if what I am about to say as already been said,
but I did not have time to read your entire feedback
page...the site certainly drew a large (and vocal)
audience!

You certainly seem to have come up with some new stuff to stretch me that others haven't bought up before.  I hope I don't come across too arrogant in my replies.   

Maybe this letter will just be the same old thing.  But
maybe I might give you just the words you needed to
convince you that this better life is attainable
But I digress.  This issues at hand:
First, you seem to disagree with the wording of the Second
Insight.  You believe it implies that Luther attacked the
truth of the Church.  What the second insight tell of is
not a destruction of the Church's ideals, but its
stranglehold over the people of England.  The word of the
truth is no less true today than it was 100 years ago.
However, modern people posess freedom of worship.  We are
not forced to believe in the church.

It also points out that corruption in the SYSTEM of the
church, not its truth, caused people to become disenchanted
with Christianity (Or at least Catholicism) and start
looking for other answers.  Maybe the explorers would come
back with proof of God's existence or a better method of
worship; or maybe something else entirely.
But the point of the insight is not Luther's actions, or
how true the word of the Church was or is.  What you appear
to be missing is the essence of the insight; for whatever
reason, people as a whole (As opposed to individuals) moved
away from spirituality, and created their preoccupation
with progress.  If you think about it, it is obvious that
this has happened; just look at Christians as a percentage
of world (Or at least European) population now and 1000
years ago.

Maybe I just interpreted the book from a defensive mindset but it seemed that the CP was inferring that Christianity as well as the SYSTEM was defunct and obsolete.   If I was writing it I would have shown how the crap that the church was doing was totally against the teachings of Christ.  It's sad that we seem to have thrown the baby out with the bath water.  As you said, it was the SYSTEM not the truth that was in error.  

You also expressed your disbelief that the world can
improve.  You cited the First Law of Thermodynamics as your
justification...but you must remember that human society is
not a thermodynamic system.  Psychology and society follow
different rules entirely.  You can see that things are
becoming more automated.  And people ARE opening up to a
more spiritual culture on Earth.  The women's AND Men's
movements attest to this.  Ultimately, it's something you
have to consider and come to believe yourself, but think
long and hard before you dismiss the notion.

Hmm...  I figure that while ever human nature is fundamentally selfish I don't see any great change occurring.  It is true that we have made many great steps forward in technology and humanity but there are still horrific atrocities being committed all over the world.  Maybe the UN puts some limits on the degree of atrocity that can be committed but just look at the violence that we choose for entertainment?!?!  I've walked the streets of Hollywood and Washington DC and seen the poverty and disperance in living standards of people in this cities which are looked upon by the world as the epitome of where it's at. 

Fundamentally I suppose my perspective comes from my Christian belief in human nature being naturally sinful and requiring salvation.  1 John 1:7-10 says "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.  If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.  If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives." 

I, like you, was sceptical about seeing energy fields.  A
few things, however, changed my mind.  A good friend of
mine, who I know would not lie to me about such matters,
has told me about energy fields he has witnessed.  I have
also felt the energy flowing in myself as discussed in the
later insights.  The Tenth Insight discusses areas with
extremely high energies, and I have experienced such
places.  At the Night Safari zoo in Singapore, there are
several extremely powerful places, where I was overwhelmed
with the energy I felt without even thinking about the
insights.  I'm not sure where in Australia you live, but
there are also a few areas in the gardens of the University
of Western Australia where there is a fair bit of energy.
I intend to study there next year, and be able to spend
enough time in the gardens to see these fields myself.
You claimed that physics disputes the possibility of such
energy ever being created.  It always amuses me to find a
Christian justifying his position using conservation of
energy principles.  But in any case, Physics has holes.
Even the greatest scientific minds of our time acknowledge
that.

There is much that I don't understand.  My sister is currently doing an acupuncture course.  Interesting stuff.  It's all about energy flows through the body.  I'm not saying that it's not for real.  I'm just saying I don't understand it.

You describe yourself as a channel for God's energy, and
that is what the celestine prophecy tells you you are.  You
do not create the energy yourself, you draw it up and focus
it from your surroundings, and make it from the food you
eat.  As for God's energy, I believe that the celestine
energy is exactly that.  You call it the love of god, and
it is a sensation I usually refer to as love or euphoria.

Kewl.  If we're all created in God's image then it would be logical that God's energy flowed through all of in one way or another.  Do you think it would be conversely logical that if we have personalities and spirits that this "energy" is more than just an energy like electricity or petrol?

Following from this, you dispute the Celestine Prophecy's
definition of love, and its description of how
relationships should work.  You seem to believe that CP
describes love as an indirectable feeling, and you hold
that love is a sacrificial action, an offering to God.  But
I put it to you that CP supports the Christian ideals of
love.  Does it not express that you CAN choose where to
direct your love, and furthermore, you should love everyone
and everything for its own beauty?

To be honest, I haven't read the book in three or four years so I'm not sure exactly what it had to say.  I'm think we would agree though that love is shown/expressed in action.  I agree that there is a huge similarity between the CP and Christianity.  The New Age Movement (or whatever you will call this new movement in spirituality) has drawn much from Christianity but omitted Jesus.  

And you also dispute the completing of the circle.  This
does not refer to not needing a partner.  When you are
single, you live in a complete circle; you draw your
opposite sex energy from your surroundings.  And in a
relationship, you recieve more of this energy from your
partner, becoming a real superbring.  What CP stresses that
you must do is retain your own full circle, keep drawing
energy from sources other that that special someone, so
that you do not become addicted to him or her

This make a lot of sense. 

You told me that the bible stresses the need for compromise
and yielding in a marriage.  This is definitely a good
thing, but both parties must yield.  In the modern
definition of love, women and men alike have rights to the
energy in a relationship, and it is simply no longer
possible for a wife to submit, and send all of her energy
to her husband, retaining none for herself.

Ephesians 5:21 says "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."  It is a two way reciprocal thing here!  I agree with your inference here that the male leaders of the church have twisted lots of the biblical teachings to make it seem a one way subservient thing. 

You seem to think that the "walking into heaven" part of
the last insight is blasphemy, or at least big talk; I
agree that the last insights are a fairly large
extrapolation, and are not necessarily possible.  But it's
a dream to aspire to.  And I put it to you that Jesus
Christ did exactly this, and walked into heaven himself.

Maybe one day I'll understand what happened when Jesus went up to heaven.  I'm not going to make out that I do.  It's interesting that as an atheist you seem to know a lot about the Bible?!?!    I'm impressed. 
It's a great dream to think that we can become good enough to be worthy to walk into heaven, or that we can gain the Karma through enough iterations/reincarnations to achieve Nirvarna as the Buddists put it. 

The Bible teaches that Jesus is God, the creator, while humans are his creation.  Once Jesus had done what he came to do he went back to heaven where He belonged.  He said (John 14:3) "...I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."  Jesus lead the way and made the way for us to follow him into heaven.

Hebrews 10:19 - 22 says "Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water." 

Jesus opened the way for us to make it to heaven through what He did.  We don't just walk into heaven because we one have done enough to make the grade. 

On another matter, you said that Christianity is
"different" and should not be "lumped" with other
religions.  Could you please explain to me how this is so?

My answer to this questions relates a lot to my last blurb.  The religions of the world say that you make it by what you do.  Only Christianity has grace and salvation.  That's what makes it unique.  Take Jesus out of Christianity and you've got the law which says you have to work to bed good enough... and you'll never be good enough. 

Romans 3:22-24 says "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." 

The Celestine Prophecy/New Age says that we can ease our consciences and make it, whatever that means, if we are good enough and do enough.  Christianity says that if we merely accept the gift of salvation then we are good enough.  Our lives are then lived simply in response to that gift; not what we have to do but what we want to do.  

Jesus even said (John 14:6) "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."  Some say this is a pretty arrogant claim, but if Jesus is really God then he can afford to be so arrogant. 

Anyway, that is what I have to say to you.  Hopefully, I
have cleared up some issues for you, and you can progress
to your higher evolution.  If there is anything further you
wish to discuss, feel more than welcome to reply to this
email.

Kewl.  There are some things that you have brought up that I realise I should go back and check out with the CP to make sure I haven't totally misunderstood its intentions.  

One person pointed out that when a class does a book review they all come up with different takes on what they read.  I suppose this is true for the CP, the Bible and lots of life.  I can't claim to be right and you wrong cos we're both just on the journey earnestly trying to find what truth is. 

Maybe you have just discarded everything I have just told you.  Even then, I am disappointed that I failed to convince you that a better life is possible on this mortal coil, and the next one, but I am happy for you.  There is a better life to be had in this life and the next.  

There are many similarities in our beliefs, but also some differences in our methods of reaching that destination. 

Even if you leave some of the Celestine Prophecy behind, as a conflict with your current beliefs, you have read the book, and obviously accepted at least some small part of what it says.  This will lead to an improvement in your life, even if only a small one, and I congratulate you

There is much wisdom in the book.  Much to learn that is outside the little Christian sphere.  I hope that I am on an ongoing journey of spirituality.  Forgive me if I come across somewhat closed minded. 

Sincerely,

Daniel Bond

I hope to hear back from you.

Marty

Hey Daniel. 

Hi Marty!

I've been reading the posts on the feedback page a bit more and I thought I'd reply to a few of the contributors...maybe you'd like to forward this if you've got their email addresses or something?

I’m impressed at the effort you’ve obviously put in checking out the responses page.  Unfortunately I don’t have the addresses of theses people now but I’ll post your responses as part of the discussion.

First of all, to you:  Thank you for operating such a free
and open forum for the discussion of The Celestine
Prophecy, without being "too Christian" or anything like
that.  The world could use more people as open-minded as
you.

I think I have learnt lots about being open minded from all the discussions I’ve had with people over what I originally wrote. 

The rest of these are in no particular order.
To Dick, who asked if we really believed in this stuff as a
religion: Religion, maybe not, but the book has allowed me
to get in touch with my spiritual side, and it has for many
of my friends.  I think it can also help to clarify the
truths of other religions if readers approach it with an
open enough mind and make appripriate substitutions (ie.
"energy" = God's Love)

Maybe that could be a good preface to Redfield’s next book. 

To Hassan, who told us about a Muslim perspective on CP: It
appears that you found the book through one of the very
intuitions it discusses.  It's great to hear that CP
complements a wide range of religions

To Imani, who told us why Atheists don't like Christianity:
the main reason I don't like Christianity is because the
institution has displaced the truth. 

I agree that the institution so often replaces the truth and the faith.  You still refer to it as ‘truth’ though. 

Too many people have become so busy eating fish on Fridays that they've
forgotten what it means; they go through the motions, but
don't really feel a connection to anything higher;
Christianity has, sadly, become an intellectual concept

The great thing about Christianity is that Jesus’ law of love ‘Love God with all your heart and all you mind and all your soul and love your neighbour as yourself’ really summed up all the laws.  Now all we have to think about when is ‘is this action based in love and not selfishness’ which is really the same thing as what the Celestine Prophecy is saying. 

I also don't like the idea that there is one big guy up there judging me. 

It’s not a fun concept if you’re not trying to live by the rules that that big guy sets so most people try to dismiss it all together and replace it with something else.   

And the Bible annoys me too; I like to make my decisions based on my own judgements without running for a book to tell me what I should do.

As I said, the law of love is summative and pretty simple.  The funny thing is that even humans tend to create more rules to live by that get much more complex than the Bible.  Just take Redfield’s series of books for instance.   

To Ben, who tells us the CP is poorly written fiction, and
Stephanie, who points out that CP is filed under "Fiction"
and is probably just a rort for money anyway: I don't CARE
if it was just for money!  The messages in CP still ring
true (Read any pop psychology and you can draw links), and
it's made my life happier, and many of you out there have
also experienced its merits; if it was just for money or
fame, I don't mind (Maybe that's God's underlying
motivation too...lol), it's made me a better person anyway.

I think it’s made lots of people’s lives better Daniel.  But it is still the work of a man trying to make sense of his world like you and me. 

And it IS poorly written for a work of fiction.  That's
because it's also sort of a parable...sometimes good
literature has to give way to clear expression of ideas.
Steph, don't worry if you can't see the fields.  You don't
have too see them to fell their effects if you're trying...

To Ben, who explained how we lose touch with God after our
Original Sin: The Tenth Insight explains how to get in
touch with your "Birth Vision", a life purpose you were
given at birth and then lost touch of..maybe that's what
happens when you lose touch with God.

This is a very similar concept to reconciliation wit God. 

To Ryan and Tina, who think CP tells us to sit back and let
things happen: This just isn't true!  CP tells us we have
to ACTIVELY watch our thoughts, evaluate them constantly.
What it tells us to do is sit back and meditate when we
can't make decisions, and the answer will be revealed to
us...the Word of God?

Meditating and listening to God seems to be a forgotten thing in our busy world. 

To Nolalee, who asserts that there is no proof of
Christianity, and Sebastian, who was quite brutal in
informing us that God is Dead (sic.): It doesn't matter.
Christianity, like any religion, does not need to be proved
or disproved.  Like CP, it is simply something to believe
in and a way to get in touch with your spiritual self,
whether it is true or not.  You don't have to believe it
yourself.  But there's no call to attack people who do.

There is much proof that Christianity, though tainted with a history of humanity, is what it claims to be.  Accepting the teachings of Jesus and who He claimed to be and living by it require faith and surrender which understandably lots of people don’t want to do. 

To Bradley, who refuses to read to book: Shame on you.
It's one thing to find out what CP has to say and then form
justified opinions, but don't run from it.  CP isn't a
blasphemy.  It actually clarifies the truth of the Church
and teaches a better way to get in touch with God's energy
and use that energy to help people around you.

Yes, you can’t bury your head in the sand and hope it all looks the way you want it to when you come up for air.  We’ve got to grapple with the situation that we find ourselves in.  Yes, the CP does have much to say which can embellish the Christian faith when read from that perspective.  I don’t think it has enough substance without some foundation in something greater.  Would it be fair to say that, on it’s own, it isn’t much more than pop psychology.

And finally, to Martina, who wrote the first letter posted
here, and told us that CP ignores the presence of evil:
that is one aspect of the Bible that I disagree with.  The
presence of evil is not necessary for good to exist; this
is a myth that has been perpetuated all too thoroughly in
Western society.  Instead, if we focus on the good, and
accept that evil is present and simply try to avoid it (CP
does tell us to watch our thoughts), then we're set...

I suppose it’s a different approach to evil.  It’s good to avoid evil like you say.  But Christianity acknowledges that one day evil must be dealt with and removed from our world for ever so we can live the way that were created to live. 

Anyways, just a few thoughts for some of you...thanks for
listening...

Thanks for taking the time to go through so many people’s feedback and adding your thoughts.  It really serves as a good overview of the whole feedback page. 

Sorry for being so darn argumentative.  I suppose I just like to weigh up my thoughts against other people’s thoughts in my own mind. 

Daniel

Blessings

Marty

I found this page because I was researching the celestine prophecy.  I met a young man who believes it to be a factual account of events and I wanted to get some more background on it.

I met the young man in a therapy group I am in.  I'll make a long story short -- after 25 years of selfish, hedonistic living and alcohol abuse, I very nearly went insane. I was cutting myself and burning myself with cigarettes and getting completely obliterated on alcohol nearly everyday.

So, considering that, I'll describe an experience I had.  Last May I had an event during which my entire personality broke down and dissolved.  For about 6 hours I was completely and absolutely free of any kind of personal distortions or bias and saw the world 'unfiltered'.  I thought I was dying.

But I saw the world with a beauty, clarity, and intensity that I never had before.  I could almost see the world being created, or renewed, as I watched.  It was still my same house, living room, yard, trees outside, etc.  but I saw it in a way that can only be considered a spiritual experience. 

I also saw myself as a human being who had been created in a state of perfection, but through the things I learned as a child, and later my own actions, had turned away from this holy state of existence.

'Sin' can also be defined as 'missing the mark,' or being without God.  To be without God is to live in a state of sin or emptiness -- to be in Hell.  I experienced that state of hell for 25 years.  When we turn away from God we are left empty, we fall asleep and cannot wake ourselves.

I was raised a catholic, but like so many people who have posted here, I became very disillusioned with 'christianity'.  I started looking into new age beliefs.  I do not imply that new age beliefs caused my problems, only that as I became more mentally unstable, I looked to new age philosophies in an attempt to help myself, to 'raise my consciousness.'

But during my recent experience, as my personality dissolved from within, I saw a bigger picture of myself as a person.  I saw that I had 'fallen asleep' and that there was no way, ever, that once this happens we can ever wake ourselves to a 'higher consciousness.'  It would be like someone with a vocabulary of only 20 words trying to describe New York City.  Not possible.  Not only that, it's like having only a 20 word vocabulary and not realizing that there EXISTS more than 20 words to describe the entire world.

I do not consider myself a Christian, as I have a problem with that word.  I do agree with you, however, that salvation, or enlightenment, must come from outside of ourselves.  it's not something that we can 'do,' or cause, ourselves.  all we can do is thoroughly and minutely examine our own lives and thoughts and 'knock on the door.'  I can no more raise my own consciousness than I could levitate myself from the bottom of a well, especially when I don't realize I am at the bottom of a well to start with.

Plato or Aristotle said that we live life like the shadows thrown on the wall of a cave.  I have personally experienced this as true.  We are so blinded by our own concept of reality that we literally can not see outside the bubble we live in -- we don't have the thought processes, the capability, to do that.

This is the greatest evidence I have ever seen that the words of Jesus Christ are true -- not logic or faith, but by experience during a traumatic personal crisis.  We can not reach enlightenment by ourselves because we are incapable of conceptualizing anything outside our own view of reality -- we just keep rehashing the same old stuff over and over.

So I'm not quite there yet, and many would probably consider the experience I had as a nervous breakdown or something -- but it did not make me weaker.  Rather, it was a moment of absolute clarity like nothing I've experienced.  Time stopped for me and I saw the world renewed instant by instant.  I did not 'see' Jesus or God or anything like that, but I felt a holiness all about me.

Ok, one more thing to tie this rather rambling note together.  During my new age searches I ran across a book called The Relaxation Response by Herbert Benson.  In his book, Dr. Benson presents a scientifically validated method of invoking a physiological response very similar to that achieved during meditation.  It is interesting to note that this physical response is actually achieved by releasing one's self to a passive state of mind -- by 'not doing.'  To 'try' or to exert effort is to actually cause the other side of the nervous system to engage, which leads us back to our normal mental state.

In reference to submitting to the will of God (a phrase that used to really PISS ME OFF!), the evidence gathered to support the existence of the relaxation response in humans also, in this context, supports or explains the need to submit to God's plan for us.  That is, doing things 'our way' actually causes certain neural responses and thought processes that make it impossible for us to perceive the presence of God in our lives.  The harder we 'try' to raise our own consciousness, the farther away we push the experience itself.  We become entangled in a Catch-22, an endless web of our own thoughts and illusions.  But by 'submitting' ourselves, we open ourselves to grace (we die so we may be born again).

Pretty tricky, pretty subtle, but basically we create our own personal hell and then FORGET we are there, leading to misery and 'restlessness.'   Like a fly stuck on paper, the more we struggle the more trapped we become.  

I'm not trying to convert anybody, but in my personal experience, the teachings of Jesus Christ seem to be making more sense to me than anything else I've ever read.  I don't understand it all in any sense, but I know that once I quit splitting hairs with people who told me what Jesus said, and told me what he meant when he said it, and started actually reading it myself, it made a lot of sense.

thanks, you've got a great discussion going.

Wow!  Thanks for your response.  I’m sure you won’t mind if I post it.  I’ve learnt a lot from it all.  The spiritual journey is sometimes so vague with so few definite sign posts.  I think you are right though, that the more you try to grasp absolute truth the further it slips from your grasp.  Glad you’re enjoying reading the teachings of Christ.  Maybe it’s just my upbringing or my preconceived beliefs, but they seem to make more sense than anything else. 

Marty,

I am 47 and just finished the book too. I am an old Jesus freak from the 70's and was equally impressed with the insights the author had. What I was most impressed with is the confirmation that the goals of new agers is synonymous with the goals of the church.  But of course his approach is all wrong. Are people taking this book seriously as a religion?  You have great insight for a twenty-three yr old.

I live in southern Ohio. Where is Warwick?

Dick fisher

Thanks Dick

Warwick is a couple of hours West of Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.  Nice little town.  Nothing much happens.  

Some people seem to take the book as fiction, some as a serious life philosophy which they get really offended at when you challenge!  Scary.  It’s pretty representative of the hotch potch of views that are out there.  It’s saddening that the church hasn’t shown them what people are looking for so they have to make up other options.  It’s a big challenge to live a life of love and grace that will show the real Jesus to the world.

Marty

I gotta tell ya... I am not surprised that this book was a work of trouble. I have been under a ton of stress now for the past several days (partially because I am now engaged to marry and it is wonderful as well as scary all at the same time), and a friend of mine at work decided to help me. I know he was trying, but he is not exactly the kind of guy I would ever go to for advice.

He read this book and bought a copy for me. We went out from the office for a cup of coffee and stopped by a Christian bookstore to look for it. (go figure... it wasn't there) I had no idea what it was, so I just followed along with slight skepticism. We stopped by another book store... and while I was looking at books on improving relationships through God, and how to better your marriage... he walked over with the book. As soon as I even looked at the cover I felt a feeling of uneasiness. I am in no way a psychic, but I feel God speaks to me through my conscious (as he does with all Christians who listen to him). Call it a gut feeling if you want, but that same feeling has yanked me from many bad decisions.

Anyway, I told him I would rather read the book on marriage. He insisted I read this book and become a "stronger person". To make a long story short, I took the book since he already bought it for me. It sat on my desk... and is now sitting on my coffee table. Every time I look at it I have a feeling of doubt. I know it is an unGodly book just from reading this guy's reviews. I read the first page and put it down.

Truth is... I don't want to clog my mind with ideas that are hopelessly misconstrued to sucker those in who are looking for meaning in this world. I know who I am in Christ. I am also far from being perfect and fear anyone who would consider themselves to be "their own god". I love the fact I can turn to Christ and receive his guidance and not that of a mortal man. Plain and simple.

After reading your review, I now know that I will definitely not read that miserable deception. I think I will go back and buy that book on "Godly marriage". :-)

Take care and God bless!!!

Bradley

Hassan - A Muslim Perspective

Dear Marty, Salaams,

I read your letter my friend, knowing the value of spirituality I have meditated and have gone through the science of impressions. My cousin was assonated last year by the people who claim to be most near to Islam. He was also my friend and we both were next door neighbours. I was attached to him a lot. His assassination disturbed me and I thought what was that which makes our path right and our existence meaningful. One day, as I was going to drop my family in a cab for a wedding, I started crying and prayed to God to reveal the meaning of life to me. Suddenly, all that came to my mind was to go to a book fair where I'll find what I needed. I skipped the wedding and went there.

As I was searching for books my eyes stopped at one, I had seen the seen on the cover before as well ( in my thoughts in spirituality ) and I said " this is it", It was Celestine Prophecy.

There is a difference between knowing and believing. I believe what I do not know but have faith for its truth; on the other hand, I know things that are there, that exist. All of us on the planet earth, living by the help of God and making our way provided by mother-nature, are here in the world for two things, before I state those, let me say that everybody thinks and interprets anything by his or her mind. I cannot change your mind and you cannot change mine. But the two things are to get rid of the self and to seek knowledge.

Islam tells me that if I do anything without saying Insha-Allah ( if God wills ), even if I am successful in it, I am wrong. Everything happens with the will of Allah. I will do all the homework, Allah will only approve it. Allah will not do things for me. I will be the one to give medicine to an ill person, but only Allah will heal it. Allah helps and thats what prayers are for.

Another thing that I read in your letter was that only Bible is the true revelation of God. I am sorry to say but that hurted me. I believe that is where the conflict b/w the muslims and the christians begin. You cannot be a muslim unless you have faith in the QURAN and let me tell you what it says; the verse is very long so I'll tell you only what is concerned; you cannot be a muslim if you donot have faith in JESUS CHRIST ( we call him Hadhrat Isa ) Alaihis-Salam and the Holy BIBLE. Alaihis-Salam means may the blessings and peace of Allah be upon him. It is obligatory for any muslim to say Alaihis Salam after calling the name of any prophet.

Now, if the BIBLE is a true revelation ( which it is ), then why did Quran's Revelation came for the human beings. It is told that there were so many changes done to the Holy Bible by the people who were selfish that it was a doubtful situation for a person to believe which one is right. I wonder why the Church does not tell Christians what Islam tells about Christianity. In Islam, if any person tries to change Quran, he is to get the strickest punishment, a law that was made by Allah so that people donot harm themselves by their own selfish plans.

In Islam, it is allowed to marry a Christian. Also, it is told in the Quran that the only prophet who didn't die is Jesus Christ ( Alaihis-Salam ). Do you also know Marty, that it is our faith that before the day of Judgement, Jesus Christ ( Alaihis Salam ) will come to the world back, which is very near, to lead divine against the evil. I am sure that now you know what I've told you about the revelations, majority of them are true ( like for Jews as well, stated in the Quran ), but the followers are really selfish and can have evil designs whether they be Muslims, Christians or Jews.

Another thing that Islam teaches, perfect love means to love both the oppressor and oppressed, to love the oppressed means to know how bad situation he is in, and the oppressor, to know what kind of traumic state the mind of oppressor has. To help both of these to get rid of this situation is perfect love. This is also the interpretation of a famous saying, " Love the sinner but hate the Sin".

Then why is that Islam allows to Kill people, Only if they Pose a danger to the society or if they don't leave any other option but to kill them.

Otherwise, to kill a person in Islam, an innocent person ( whether he/she belongs to any religion, sect, or race ) , is like to kill all of the humanity. My cousin was also assassinated but I thought not to take any revenge, if not physically then also not spiritually, b/c I love the Sinners and know what kind of mental state they are in, But I have their sin and I will always be doing that. All I can do is to help them by praying for them.

I love you and perfect love means love against love and love against hate. My name is Hassan and I am a 22 years old Pakistani, a muslim, a person who has been made by the same being who made you as well. May God lead us all to the real meaning of Salvation ( Insha-Allah ), Aameen.

Lots of love from Hassan.

Hi Hassan

Out of the many emails I've gotten in response to my letter yours was one of the most graceful and moving. I am so ill informed about the Islamic religion in Australia.

I am very interested to find out more about the place the Jesus plays in your faith. What is the meaning of Salvation in your faith and what role does Jesus play in this?

I agree that there may have been some changes and errors in the script of the Bible that you and I have and many more in the reinterpretations that many people put on it for their own selfish gain. I still believe though the message of Salvation that Jesus came to bring is intact and we would be naive to throw everything out because other people have stuffed it up somewhat.

There seem to be many commonalities between Judaism, Christianity and Muslim. I regret that I do not know more so I cannot give you more respect.

I have to go now, but I would love to stay in contact.

Blessings.

Marty

Hi Iamani  

Sorry it’s taken me so long to get back to your letter, but here are a few thoughts. 

Ok I read your letter and response to the Celestine Prophecy...

Just a few notes:

1. The reason ---the biggest reason that many people are not attracted to
the message of Christ is simple---it feels bad..it depresses many who "try"
it and it mentally, emotionally and spiritually drains the life out of many
people....not all but many...probably b/c of the "sinful" nature of man and
the fact that no one can even obtain or ne given that beautiful FAITH
Hebrews so eloquently speaks...

It is depressing to acknowledge that you are sinful.  People don’t want to come to that point of acknowledging that we are all fundamentally selfish and sinful.  When we have faith though and accept the grace that God offers and the gift of salvation our response is one of joy and celebration of God and life.   

2. Show me a church, any church, where  FAITH isn't still translated back
into works...Pretty much we all, as humans want to do, want to work and and
want to deserve...who really does? no one but we still want to and no
amount of humbling out makes us stop wanting to deserve our place in
life...call it an inferiority complex...we don't feel like we are enough
and Christianity most often than not leads to a deeper inferiority complex
than what we had in the first place.

There seems to be an inbuilt law inside of us.  We know that there is something wrong and that we need to work to do something about it, or to ease our consciences.  Christianity teaches that this is us trying to make ourselves right with God.  When we accept the gift of salvation we no longer strive to be right with God but live our lives as a response to who God is and what He has done.  My favourite verse in the Bible, Romans 12:1 basically says this: “In view of God’s mercy, offer yourselves as living sacrifices…”

It is unfortunate that we find it hard to  believe what God really tells us… that we are loved, unique creations in His own image.  When we can’t comprehended how great God’s grace is we often end up reverting to law. 

3. If I hear one more Christian use the argument that Jesus said "I am THE
way, THE truth,and THE life" ---I am going to scream...especially when the
proof is one three letter definitive article, used in our language to
diferentiate something specific...as in "the" versus "a"--which would
change the whole meaning of the verse...but JESUS SPOKE IN ARAMAIC..the
bible was written in Hebrew and GREEK...even a kindergarten linguistics
education could tell you that it is OBSCENE to use a definitive argument to
prove an entire philosophical stance..such as that Christ meant theONLY way
the ONLY truth...also even in English "the" doesn't infer "only"...lets put
it this way..the common english is that if asked a question we usually
speak with authority...not being so specific as we account for others
intelligence to interpret the gist...i.e.  you ask me how to get to my
place..I say well the way her is this and that...even though there may many
ways I don't say "One of the many ways to my house is ..." b/c it is
infered ...and it is besides the point nad the way I am trying to tell
you...so if you ask Jesus the way he isgonna say I am THE way ..but for
Goodness' Sakes that doesn't mean he meant the ONLY way...
Even in saying that no one comes to the father but through me can't be
taken literally b/c he could have simply been identifying himself to his
philosophy --as many speakers often do adn most people do at a certain
point in conversation...and especially since we are dealing w/ adead
languagfe and 100 years of time before it is even written/ passed on
orally...UGH...this argument just falls apart...completely in the face of
logic and I don't understand why christians even go there..why even argue
your beliefs? why why why convince..if it is God thenit will be
convincing...you don't have to convince anyone of the beauty of a
sunset...thats because it IS beautiful..not just thought to be so or
believed to be so..IT IS IN TRUTH...TRUTH, especially on the spiritual tip,
SPEAKS FOR ITSELF..

I see where you’re coming from here and appreciate your argument.  To my understanding though Christianity is unique and it’s hard to make it compatible with other religions or other ways.  As you said before, we all seem to see the need to make ourselves right or better for some reason.  Christianity says that this feeling of lacking is a symptom of our separation from God, or sin.  Jesus made the way for us to be right with God through his effort and not ours – grace, salvation, etc.  Every other religion that I have seen has some system of works for us to make ourselves feel better that never quite fills the gap.  I think that is an obvious difference, a Truth that does speak for itself.

anyway excuse the typos and thanks for the ear.

Thanks for taking the time to write.

Imani

Marty  

Well definitely I thank you for your responses as well...and hope to reply
with the same attention to detail...

Thanks.  I appreciate your openness and honesty in this discussion.  It's been great. 

In light of the arguments I presented to you, I want to further expand
possibly not so much my logic in it  ---as well...we both are logical in
our own respective sides...however to see the heart of it...I have been
raised a Christian my entire life...and what I am trying to tell you is
this..Yes Christianity is indeed ....if lived in its heart of meaning...a
very profound spiritual path that especially is suitable to our time in
history where as we are very work oriented and judgemental and see
ourselves as sinners...

The guts of Christianity is very applicable to our time, we just fail to make the paradigm shift so often to actually enact Christianity rather than the Christian culture which is flawed just like anything else that is of human construction.

those who miss the mark (definition of Sin =
missing the mark, its original context came out of the popular  culture of
that day as it was a dart game first...you miss the bulls eye, everyone
calls out sin...eventually the culture adapted it as a slang term for when
you intend to do one thing and certainly end up doing another..you miss
your mark..you mess up. Jesus and the prophets and all the writers of the
bible assimilated this term to explain how we Sin against God even in our
lives..meaning what the Creator intended for us to experinece is far from
what we experience b/c we do not have the wisdom, patience, love joy,
kindness (fruits of the Spirit)etc. to make the correct positions...Check
out those verses (i'm at work w/out my reference but you can look in
concordance to find) on the fruits it says if we live by these and develop
them we will naturaly avoid sinning...(paraphrase)..

Yes, I agree, but how many people do you know that exhibit the fruits of the spirit all the time?  So we end up sinning cos our focus is not always on Christ.  

however it is important that in our effort "not to be seperate from god"tht
we do not further seperate ourselves with our ambition for god...you see?
these ambitions ...while seeminly noble...are fools play b/c we are not god
and can never obtain god as we can an object..you see first he is within us
---the actual stuff of our being..so what we grasp for we already have..we
just have to have courage to recognize..to remember...but most are afraid
to remember adn this is where religion helps ---or hinders. Jesus lived his
relationship w/ God..he remembered always and tried to teach us not to
codify things not to legalise things not to dictate ourselves and others in
the relationship bit to experience it...and all its complexities and
diversities....God made a diverse universe nd when we shut ourselves off to
this we get in trouble..we start wars we start killing and as much
spiritually as physically...you see...

I agree.  We Christians often get caught up in defining the minute and thus become legalistic which excludes grace. 

So when Christians are more concerned
with being right being true being the one and only way...they miss out on
experinecing the fruits and being able to appreciate Gods
creation...including the cultures and philospophical differences that
enlighten the different peoples on this earth and allow them to have their
own take on things...and they also miss the lessons to be learned for
themselves---people who spread the good news at all cost s wihtout first
love and kindness and joy..

Christians have done much damage to other cultures by first trying to change people's beliefs and cultures without showing them first love and being their servant.  It's hard and it doesn't come very naturally though. 

well they are spreading demons on this earth and how can you tell? b/c look at what increases...SIn or The Fruits..."By their fruits you will know them"... Jesus said, "by this men will know that you are my disciples, that you love one another."  many churches interpret this to mean by the # of converts you will know them...they say one thing and their actions say another...remember god said to feed his sheep not count and most are being counted and not fed and they are still hungry...it is very clear in
the scriptural writings and not just those canonized by the Roman Catholic
Church...that Gods Spirits shows in us by our actions and he gives the
fruits of the spirit as an example...not by what we say we are for but by
what our lives show we are for....so many people run from many so called
"Christians" why? Christians say because it is predicted in the Bible...b/c
it is the persecution they experience as predicted...as Jesus
experienced...they arrogantly rejoice in this...but lets look...how was
Jesus persecuted and by whom?  Mainly by the politicians and leaders who
would rather be shady than do things the right and loving way...like many
politicians today...or business men...they like shortcuts and figure hey if
we hurt a few but gain many who cares..  they have an ends justifies the
means philosophy...Christ did not agree on this he said do things the right
way...regardless...he gave us the means and told us to have faith in the
end. Christ was widely accepted amongst the simpletons of his era...by
thousands and thousands....many people adored him even though in the
end..  the law won and many did deny him..  but in general he was widely
admired and looked up too...AND SOUGHT AFTER..  by a vast majority..  if this
were not so the Pharisees wouldn't have even felt threatened..  but they
did..

There are always going to be the knockers when you do the right thing that are threatened by what you do.  In Australia we call it the “tall Poppy syndrome” where everyone is brought down to size so the people who couldn’t be bothered making a difference aren’t threatened.  I think Paul says, "as far as it is possible (as far as it is in your control) try to get on with everyone."

and not b/c jesus was a kamikaze either..he was precisely the opposite
which only gave his few moments of anger and force even more power...he had
and taught of a gentle spirit and to be gentle with each other...(if you
would go to a jewish service you might understand this betterb/c jews are
like pentecostals in many regards...very preachy w/ lots of flair for
authoritative speech and the like..but jesus' methods were much
differnent...and worked much better than the pharisees who utilised mostly
fear and authority to provoke the people to obey...SO modern day christians
are usually not known for their love...for their gentleness...for their joy
and ability to instruct...they are run from more than sought...and
christians say "well we are sinful to and are not perfect"   well thats a
nice way to avoid the truth which is that the modern day chrisitian machine
is not loving at all...period...Monks aren't perfect either but at the very
least you know they are in control of their temperments..and wh?   b/c
their whole system trains them as such..it is intrinsic to their
discipline..they way it was SUPPOSED to be intrinsic to Jesus'
teaching...however our romanesque ambitions of number s and strength and
power took that away a long time ago and it is a rare find to find the
truly loving christian soldier who really touches people and can truly lead
them to the spiritual truths in christianity...this is why people turn from
the church and the body of believers---and the often the body of Christ...a
majority of jus simple down to earth people would ather burn in hell than
spend heaven with a buch of hoilier than though christians and that should
tell you something right their..b/c if they are like that here on earth
they will be like that in heaven too..ugh what hell it would be!

I wish I could disagree with you here, that it were not the case.  But I have nothing to say except how can we take the teachings of Jesus and apply them properly today? 

sometimes I have to tell you it is exhausting to argue such very obvious
things.especially when the only people who don't just "get it " are those
caught up in a legalistic experience of life and god....out of fear to be
wrong and fear of gods wrath( or the wrath of their peers and churches and
parents)out of their inferiority complexes... b/c they don't see their own
worth adn value as is and they can't experience gods love of them or grace
in christian terms either b/c they can't even extend such to themselves and
not to others either...Jesus extended lots of humor and grace to those
around him...and he set those authoritarians on fire for that...

so if you are indeed dedicated to Christ then that’s great but maybe as
Christ had a love for people and their respective viewpoints maybe rather
than shunning another’s spiritual view as in the Celestine Prophecy you
could open yourself to the goodness and the wisdom it has which could help
many avoid many sins...

I see the New Age Movement and the teachings of the CP as much wisdom.  So much of what Christianity is meant to be, without Christ.  I spent a lot of time looking at Community through reading Scott Peck and a bunch of other people.  There’s lots of good stuff out there that we would all be better people for following, much indeed that it would be great for Christians to grasp.  But unless there is a greater being or a greater good then it’s really hard to get people past their own intrinsic selfishness to work for the common good on an ongoing basis.  An then there’s the fact that Jesus said that he was the salvation for the world.  How God appropriates that grace is not mine to judge, but the real reason that I put all this effort into talking to people about the Celestine Prophecy and related issues is to communicate the message, “hey, you’ve got so much, you know so much, you just need the last piece of the puzzle, Jesus.  He’s the end of your journey.”  The problem is the real Jesus is shrouded in so much crap through history.  Somehow I need to live a life that shows the true Jesus to the world.  That’s the biggest challenge. 

and could help many to develop those fruits of the
Spirit and can deepen peoples relationships with God and each other...and
therefore see it as a companion to Christs message.(tmuch as we see the
disciples writings) and use it to relate your understanding of christ to
them..much as cooks from differing countries rlate recipes and therefore
increase the expertise in each other collectively...remember time did not
stop when the disciples passed on and even though we still do not see
christ visually  he is still on this earth in spirit and may be speaking through
someone you term "unchristian" as he did have a flair for the underdogs and
I even think saw it  a great funnie that these "holier than thou spiritual
leaders": could not see the lessons from the simple folks who were deemed
"unspiritual" --- you see their arrogance of wisdom led them to this most
destructive folly -----lets not be so arrogant.  And appreciate Gods
incredible diversity he created so that everyone with all their variety of
personalities could be reached and able to commune with the Holy Father and
Mother and Child..and with each other in Heaven..

Amen. 

At any rate...mostly please have an intercultural experience different from
your own culture this I think will help you really understand my points
rather than try to accept them as a formal argument...go to Nigeria ---very
wise people--and many are Christian in a most non European way...or to
Hawaii and speak with a Huna...if you go with a spirit that is open and not
trying to convert anyone I think you will learn how to appreciate people
more and love them more as Christ commanded...you will lose desperation for
being right and see that it is a matter of perspective..(.is the car blue
or shiny or both? you know?  different people notice different things and
their perspective may be exactly what you need)

Also some literature which is great and inspired....

Surprised by Joy---CS Lewis 

Good book.  I’ve read lots of CD Lewis’ stuff. 

The Irrational Season ---Madeleine L'Engle (great great Christian Author)

Joshua ----Joseph Girzone (unbelievable in depth)

I have heard good things about this book.  I have picked up Conversations with God to have a read of after many people recommended them to me. 

The Dead Sea Scrolls. 

Where would you get a copy of these?

Ethics nad the principles of Logic ---Aristotle--really an inspired author
if not a bit Stoic and arrogant too,=...but oh well. Lets say he was like
Paul.

Divine Blessings,

Imani

Thanks so much for taking the time to write.  There are few people who will help another along the spiritual journey.   I hope you get to share your wisdom and experience with many.

Marty

Lady so Ma - Blasphemous?

I’m not sure if I read correctly, but I think you were trying to say that the ways explained in the book are sinful and trying to strive for independence from God.  It’s exactly the opposite, this energy IS of God.  It is our way of going back and establishing this love and connection with God that we’ve lost within the last few hundred years with the boom of science and loss of faith.  The Bible says we were created in his image, we were made of God, would that not mean we have a bit of god in ourselves? God is in your heart, is he not?  The kingdom of God is inside you and all around you.  It is our job to reconnect to this energy, to get back to the energy of God, how is this blasphemous??

sincerely,

The Bible also says that the only way to the God is through Jesus.  So in that facet the Celestine Prophecy is incongruent with Christianity.  God inside us, or us being gods is a totally different concept to the concepts of sin and salvation through Jesus found in the Bible. 

The letter was to a friend who was wanting to show me how the New Age and Christianity fitted together.  From that point of view, removing Jesus from the picture and replacing him with yourself is blasphemous. 

Bill - Badly Written Fiction, why the fuss?

I'm amazed that "The Celestine Prophesy" has sparked this much debate and discussion.

Sure, SOME of the "insights" it presents are quite valid.  But, hey, IT'S ONLY A FICTIONAL STORY!... And a fairly poorly written one at that.

Aren't there some REAL issues to which we all could and should be devoting our time and energies?

Just a thought, as I passed by...

Bill

I completely agree with you Bill. The whole Celestine Prophecy thing is not that big a deal. I just responded with the letter to my friends and seem to have gotten a huge response to it on the net! The reason that it's worth devoting some time to is that so many people seem to take the fictional story so seriously! 

Marty

Ben - Keep God at the Centre of your Focus

Hi Marty.

I have to say that I agree with your stand. I’ve almost finished reading the book myself and I can see that the author has good intentions but is still coming up short.  The idea of evolving into a higher state of being? I can see that. I believe that God wants to be more than we are. So I have no problem with that part. The general view that the book takes seems to be filled with good intent, and has what appears to be good deal truth to it. However, I find the book somewhat misleading. There is another way to lie, and that is to mix truth with truth  in such a way as to give the appearance that these truths are connected in ways that they’re not. this book would make the average person think that they can fully attain their potential without God. Or at least without acknowledging God.

The way I see it, God is the wellspring of all life, creation, knowledge, and goodness. This to me would be the universal energy described in the book. At the beginning of our lives we are basically disconnected from God because of our original sin. The book was basically saying that we inherit allot of our problems from our parents which would tie into the idea of original sin, since we bare the stain on our souls of the sins of those who came before us. The problem is that the book would lead one to think that they can establish a connection with God “become one with the universe” or “connect” with the infinite energy of our own accord. Now while I do believe that it is possible for us to tap into the natural abilities and gifts that God has given us as well as the energy that surrounds us. This connection does not make us one with God and never will. We cannot order time to reverse itself, so we can’t undo all the sin in our lives in order to make ourselves pure in the eyes of God. The book tends to put God on the “back burner” so to speak yet it talks about being aware of coincidences because they will guide you. Well, where do you suppose that these coincidences are coming from. And just what are we being guided to? The universe is ordered. Order is a function of life. The life that orders the universe is God. What we seek is a union with him. But our sin keeps us from this because sin makes us imperfect. We who are imperfect cannot join with a perfect God. We don’t fit. There is a way to achieve this though.

That is to accept God’s grace and accept Christ as our savior. “Now, just what is sin?” many ask. It’s really pretty easy. God is the wellspring of all life, creation, knowledge, and goodness. This is what we aspire to become a part of. When we choose to deny God or to walk away from him, we are moving towards destruction, self destruction, evil, and ignorance. There is no neutral stance that can be taken on this road. To move away from life is to move towards death. This is what sin is. But sinning is so much a part of our nature that even when we strive to move forward we fall into old habits which lead us way from our Godly nature and twards the committing of self destructive acts. I say Godly nature because the Bible says that we are created in his image. We do have some of his qualities, but that doesn’t make us the masters. The book is very good in my estimation, at showing you how to achive a more enlightend state of being. But that state of being is worthless with out the forgiveness and cleansing of the spirit that comes from accepting Christ. Christianity is indeed different from any other faith in the world. In other religions, the message is the key. In Christianity, the messanger is the key, and the message comes second to him. Christ is God himself in the flesh. This is what Christians believe and this is what is at the core of our faith. Since the wage of sin is death, then the debt must be paid. As humans we are unable to pay this price. But God, who rules over life and death paid the debt we could not pay, so that if we were willing to come to him, all we had to do is accept  his sacrifice for us which was made through him as Jesus. Why did this need to happen? Simple. God is just. Justice demands payment of debt. God’s sense of justice needed to be satisfied. Like every covenant God ever made with the people Isreal, the new covenant with all the people of earth needed to be sealed with blood. The code of conduct sopken of in the Celestine Prophecy is a very clinical way to describe the kind of conduct spoken of in the bible. Some people think that the bible is out dated. It’s not. The only difference between the people of biblical times and the people of today, is the level of technology. We as human beings still have the same tendencies toward, lust, greed, deciet, and violence as the people way back when. The code of conduct taught in the Celestine Prophecy will not unite you with God. Nor will the code of conduct taught in the bible. The true Christian does not act in a Christ like manor in order to get to heaven. He acts that way because he has a place in heaven. The Christian doesn’t give love in order to recieve it. He gives love because he is loved. The true Christian’s conduct is a reflection of the grace and love that God has bestowed upon him. So yes. The Celestine Prophecy is a good guide, but you must remember to keep God at the center of your focus.

Stephany - A $$$ rort

Okay, hi again.

First I'd like to ask you if you can actually see the energy fields (honestly), because I can't. Maybe I should spend more time at it but I don't know anyone who can.

Second, didn't it seem a bit to you like this guy was into writing this for the money? Because in the back of my friend's book is an order form, "Send $25 to.... for you audio tape...." Seriously, I don't think Jesus ever did that, or would do that if he was in the flesh today.

I guess I can't really grip about that, it's like all those churches that ask for donations only Redfield made a business out of his.

The book is good. The guy really has got his facts together, but there still seems like something's missing. It doesn't feel solid, like the Bible, it's not something I could entirely believe in. Also, in most libraries/bookstores it's under FICTION, and I don't even know if the manuscript that was found is real. If it's not, this is all out of one guy's mind, that entirely is not solid because anyone could think up things to add on to a religion.

What do you think?

Stef

Dave - A Misunderstanding 

I have a few things I have to say. First of all, I visited your site in the first place to try to find the Christian point of view on the celestine prophecy. The title of your page is misleading - it suggests that you find the entire thing sacrilegious, yet as you read your page further, you realize that it is mainly devoted to explaining how the book clarifies Christianity.

I also noticed that at one point in your letter, you said that you didn’t understand the “submissive” thing in relationships. I believe that it has to do with the meeting of certain conditions in a relationship. Prior to this “new age”, partners in relationships would “submit” to certain conditions, but now each partner is too focused on himself or herself to meet these mutual agreements. Now, each person is feeling left out from life, as though they are missing something, and they have to have everything their way, the way they want it - to be fulfilled, which is also why there are so many breakups and complications in relationships these days.

Many of the celestine prophecy’s ideas and concepts are not to be taken quite so literally as you might think they are. I believe that the same mistake is made by the bible. I’m not a Christian, but to tell you the truth, I do believe that there is a certain hell that one goes through if he or she does not find true spiritual happiness. I take hell as more of a concept, rather than an actual place. The sequel to the book, the tenth insight, shows that hell is more of a mental state. The tenth insight has some extremely far fetched ideas in it, but I think that James Redfield intended them to be interpreted any way you wanted them to be - not quite as literally as you might.

The tenth insight also has to do a lot with fear. Not quite fear in the aspect you might think of it in. You see, with the threat of y2k, the apocalypse, and everything else, people fear that the world’s economy will crash. The book indicates that many people fear that the only way to survive this hell on earth state is to gain control while they still can. I believe this is true, but I also believe that James Redfield missed a certain point which he should have written into the tenth insight. Many Christians have asked for salvation out of pure fear - the fear of going to hell. They merely want salvation to avoid a lake of fire. This is a different type of fear which I believe is not discussed as much as it should be. Again - I’m not a christian, but  I know that it is a sin to do this - I honestly can’t remember the term for it.  Well anyway, I would appreciate it if there were more discussion on it. Not for myself - but for the people who have become christians and have found their lives dull and mindless.

About your thoughts on the second insight, I believe that you missed the point. The emphasis in the book was not placed on how Luther brought down the current ways of the catholic church at the time. The real emphasis was placed on the fact that the ways had been lost, not HOW they had been lost, just the fact that they were lost. The reason why this is so important to understand is because so many people are effected by it. The people used to rely on the churchmen to interpret God for them - they were completely dependent on them.  Although it was a good thing that the corrupted churchmen fell, it was a bad thing because so many people lost their source of happiness and contempt, and love for God. So they needed to rediscover spirituality altogether. I just wanted to clarify that so you wouldn’t be angry about the second insight.  Perhaps James Redfield didn’t really know how it happened, but that’s not the point. Regardless of how the old ways of the catholic church fell, they did fall, and that’s all that matters. I just wanted to make sure you weren’t still angry about it.

Sincerely

Dave

I too have read The Celestine Prophesy, and while I respect your position in the matter as a Christian, I must urge you to consider looking at the philosophy in another perspective. Let me elaborate my points.

1) The book explains that there is an energy that surrounds everything around us. Einstein called it The Unified Field Theory. The ancient Chinese called it Chi. Spiritual masters in India called it Prana. The latter two cultures are not Christian, yet they speak of exactly the same thing. The book further explains that one must feel the beauty of an object in order to notice the energy emanating from it. In other words, the ability to feel love for God's creations is the key to understanding the energy flowing throughout it. If you read between the lines in the Bible, this could easily be what is meant by "The Holy Spirit". It is very probable that the world's religions are a direct result of mankind trying to once again regain that lost knowledge of the universal energy through which God created the universe. So there are no demons trying to tempt you to turn away from the truth in this book, it is merely explaining what lies at the very core of all the world's religions.

2) There is no distortion in the teachings of Jesus in the book. Remember, The Bible was written by several authors after several hundreds of years of only being passed down orally. Add to that the manipulations and omissions made by the clergy during the Middle Ages in order to keep their subjects under their direct control. What you get are stories in The Bible that are skewed and distorted from the incidents that inspired the stories, or worse yet, important truths and teachings that were intentionally left out. I'll give you an example. The Dead Sea Scrolls that were found and translated revealed that Jesus had included the subject of reincarnation in his teachings. Also, he stressed that with the enlightenment that comes from knowing and understanding God's love and The Holy Spirit, we too can perform the miracles that he performed in The Bible. He insisted that he was only an example of our own potential when we are one with God, and that "The Kingdom of God lies within". These were omitted from The Bible. So in essence the book is directly in accordance with Jesus' teachings, not the other way around.

3) Finally, I must stress the universality of the book. Many of the ancient civilisations that have existed on different parts of our planet have all spoke of a coming change in our spiritual awareness that is to happen within our lifetimes. Translated texts and surviving oral histories have proven that it has already begun and will come to fruition shortly after the new millennium. Although The Bible speaks of terrible devastation before this change has completed itself, it still lies in accordance with what other ancient civilisations have foretold. Perhaps this new spiritual enlightenment that will occur in each one of us is symbolically the "New Jerusalem" that the Book of Revelations speaks of. We will all have regained the knowledge that Jesus and other enlightened examples throughout the world's religions have been trying to impart to us, whether you are a Christian, Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, Jewish, or Shinto. The Celestine Prophecy is merely telling us how to observe this change that is happening, and to prepare ourselves for when this shift in consciousness completes itself and ushers in The Second Coming of Christ.

My points have been laid out for you to show that this book is not a distraction from your Christian values, instead it should reinforce your faith in God and his plan for us. After careful examination, you may realise that these fundamental Nine Insights are at the very core of your faith as a Christian. At first I was sceptical as to whether or not these ancient Peruvian texts had something important to say in relation to myself, others, and the world around me. But after careful re-examination I realised that it was these metaphysical concepts that caused us to investigate the mystery of life itself, and thus inspired the creation of the religions we see today. Try to look beyond the veil of indoctrinated, organised religion to the mysteries that created it in the first place. Only there will you find true spiritual enlightenment and closeness to Jesus and to God.

Please respond if you wish to discuss this further.

Peace and Light,

Tony Geis

Thanks for writing Tony. I have been hearing from many very enlightened people on some interesting spiritual journeys through this letter that I innocently posted as part of my home page. I'm glad it has got some people thinking. A lot of these people have gotten me thinking too.

Also, if you start standing in judgement of the Bible then you might as well throw the whole thing out. You can't find some stuff that you don't like and throw it out by saying that the Bible isn't all right. If you're going to do that then forget referring to Christ at all. If you're going to take just a little bit then as Jesus said in Revelatino 3:15:

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm - neither hot nor cold - I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

'Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.'

Now you can't say that gels with the concept of reincarnation which takes away any concept or responsibility for sin and any concept of resurrection or second coming.

Marty

Thanks again for your encouragement. Could you pray for me as this broken person continues to write to the many broken people that I get mail from through the home page.

Marty

If, there is a device that is doing away with Christianity then that is good.

Evil.!! Christians are the most evil thing on this planet.

Thanks for your opinion. Could I ask you why you hold it?

Knowledge. I don't know where to start. Do you want to argue your religion?? From what point of view do you want to discuss this subject??

The only proof of the religion is the Bible. That document is under suspicion, therefore hardly proof. It is the only document of it's kind. One source of information is not sufficient for proof. But if you want to bring it into this discussion then I can pick faults out of it. You know that.